256. Notes of Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and the Ambassador at Large (Harriman)1
The President called WAH.
P—Hello, Averell, how are you getting along?
H—I wrote you a little note. Hope you saw about the …
P—Averell, I talked to Rusk this morning and I don’t know how you feel about it. We talked to the Hungarians last Thursday.2 Are you familiar with the conversations?
H—Only in a general way.
P—We told them that we were listening and we were hoping they would listen if they heard anything we would like to know about it and if they could get any encouragement along the peace front, it would certainly be appealing to us. They come in now and want to know if we are willing to talk to the VC on some of our 14 points and we told them we would have no trouble for the VC to be adequately heard.3 Actually, we [Page 720] don’t have much confidence that much will come out of this but that is no reason not to try. I don’t think I would be elected to Congress the first time when I ran. I think with your friends Fulbright, Scotty Reston, Mansfield, Arthur Krock and the New York Times (men), all these people thinking there could be peace, if we were only willing to have peace, we ought to give it the old college try. There’s the poll—43% of the people think we haven’t tried enough diplomatic moves—they don’t know enough what economic work we are doing in SEA. If you don’t mind picking up your old kit bags, going to visit your old friend Tito, tell him how we feel and how I feel, sit down and talk to him, and see if he has any channels, go to Poland—just quietly, one of your general vacationing around, the elder statesman visiting around the world to see the state of the world, then probably get into see that Hungarian Foreign Minister; you can go to Hungary, Poland, Yugoslavia, any place you drop in or out.
H—What about seeing Bo in Paris?
P—That would be good. He ought to be talked to.
H—I think all of this ought to be done with Rusk’s blessing.
J—I have told him this morning that I wanted you to do this. You report directly to me like when you were down in Chile and some of these other good trips you have taken. When you get back, you can talk to the Times people, etc. I think that yesterday it has been four days now and there hasn’t been a bomb dropped on NVN. We are not going to drop any until after the New Year if there is no serious provocation. Keep your trip at low level as you can. Don’t be making us explain—you never do. I talked about it to Bob McNamara this morning. Said you went down to Chile and nobody knew (you were there until you got the job done). Bob McNamara is here. There is a plane warming up. You go see Dean Rusk. You just get him the word just as soon as you can… . There has been five days since there hasn’t been a bombing.
H—Which should I go to first?
J—You be the judge. I think you want to build Gronouski up a little and pull him in on it. Tito, good. Hungarian Foreign Minister—they are the first ones (notify). You ought to look at it—when I go before the Committee for 25 billion dollars for special mission in VN—and an extra 500,000 men. Then I can say the day before Christmas no bombing, and then we sent Harriman to Poland, to Yugoslavia, and we sent Goldberg and Rusk here and Wilson there. We have walked the last mile.
H—Do you think we ought to go to Hungary first?
J—It seems to me that they are not any of them in State very strong for this. You bear that in mind. But they weren’t strong for Chile. You can at least explain when you get back to Washington where you have been, whom you have talked to, you have tried everything. And maybe you can see the Russians later. We are seeing Dobrynin.
[Page 721]H—It might be good for me to stop there.
J—Don’t you let Dean talk you out of it. You had a mighty good year. You were a great comfort. My love to Marie.
H wished the President a Happy New Year and said no one deserved it more.
- Source: Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Harriman Papers, Johnson, Pres., 1965. No classification marking. The President was in Texas; Harriman was in Washington. According to his diary, President Johnson telephoned Harriman from the LBJ Ranch at 10:36 a.m. (Johnson Library, President’s Daily Diary)↩
- See Document 241.↩
- See Document 258.↩