Office of the Historian

167. Memorandum of Conversation0

Washington, January 10, 1963, noon.

SUBJECT

  • Germany and Berlin

PARTICIPANTS

  • U.S.
    • The Secretary
    • John C. Guthrie, Director, SOV
  • U.S.S.R.
    • Vasiliy Vasilyevich Kuznetsov, First Deputy Foreign Minister
    • Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, Soviet Ambassador
    • Lev Isaakovich Mendelevich, Assistant to Kuznetsov
    • Viktor Pavlovich Karpov, First Secretary of Embassy (Interpreter)

Mr. Kuznetsov observed that as he had said to the President yesterday,1 the USSR and the United States must put more effort into the attempt to solve outstanding international problems. He said that he had mentioned the two most important as those of a German peace treaty and general and complete disarmament. With regard to Germany, he wished to stress that in the Soviet view the necessity of solving this question [Page 475] and removing the last traces of World War II must have priority as life requires this. It was clear, in Europe at least, he said, that without a solution of this problem a hotbed of war will continue to exist. The situation is now ripe for the conclusion of a German peace treaty. In fact, the viewpoints of the two sides are now much closer than they were a couple of years ago. It is now possible to reach an agreement and very little remains to be done. If both governments show a sincere desire, it should not take long to come to an agreement. Such an agreement would be useful for lessening tension in Europe while the problem of disarmament would be easier of solution. Kuznetsov added that he was not linking the German and disarmament problems.

The Secretary said that he would not attempt to review the 100 hours of talks on Berlin and Germany which had taken place over the last year or two. He would, however, urge again that Moscow approach the problem of Berlin with a general sense of reciprocity. What has caused the United States difficulty, he said, had been aptly expressed by the President’s expression “What is mine is mine; what is yours is negotiable”. Looking back to 1945, the Secretary observed, and throughout the whole postwar period there have been very few bilateral issues between the United States and the USSR. The great issues involved someone else and if these latter could be resolved, the strictly bilateral aspects of our relations would be a relatively simple matter.

Kuznetsov commented that with regard to the German problem the USSR has made many proposals. The United States has only to take its choice among them. He asked that the United States bear this in mind and said that it was now the turn of the United State to advance proposals.

  1. Source: Kennedy Library, National Security Files, Countries Series, USSR, Kuznets-ov Talks. Secret. Drafted and initialed by Guthrie and approved in S on January 16. The meeting was held in Secretary Rusk’s office. Since Kuznetsov had worked effectively with U.S. officials at the United Nations during the Cuban crisis, the U.S. Government extended an invitation to visit Washington. On January 11 Thompson briefed Knappstein and Rusk briefed Alphand on the talks with Kuznetsov, stressing that there had been nothing new in the conversations. (Department of State, Central Files, 762.00/1–1163 and 661.00/1–1163)↩
  2. A memorandum of Kuznetsov’s conversation with the President at 5 p.m. on January 9, devoted to Cuba, is scheduled for publication in volume XI.↩