Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume XV, Berlin Crisis, 1962–1963

102. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, August 23, 1962, 3:05 p.m.

SUBJECT

• Berlin

PARTICIPANTS

• Ambassador Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, Soviet Embassy
• Georgi M. Kornienko, Counselor, Soviet Embassy
• The Secretary
• William R. Tyler, Assistant Secretary for European Affairs
• William O. Anderson, EUR/SOV

After discussing another matter with the Ambassador,¹ the Secretary stated he might mention press reports received during the day concerning a problem involving Soviet armored vehicles used to carry members of the Soviet armed forces to the memorial in West Berlin.² The Ambassador then interjected a statement that he had no information beyond what he has seen in the American press. The Secretary continued that he could understand Soviet concern as regards the problem created by stones but we are concerned by the fact that recent reports indicate that armed Soviet men are riding outside armored vehicles. This practice would seem to destroy the logic of using the armed vehicles for crossing into West Berlin. We for our part are trying to avoid incidents, the chances of which would seem to be increased by positioning armed men outside the vehicles. The Ambassador interjected quickly that the Soviet soldiers are not brandishing arms. The Secretary went on to say, as a point of information, that we in fact escort our own armored vehicles when they are passing through the streets of West Berlin. He would hope that this matter can be worked out quickly on the spot. The Ambassador commented that these matters essentially are details and can be worked out by the proper persons. The Secretary added that we have noticed that details have a habit of growing into matters of concern and should be taken care of at the outset. He added that “we” (i.e., the Secretary and the Ambassador) should not have to talk about such things as the passage of a few vehicles.

0. Source: Department of State, Central Files, 762.00/8–2362. Secret. Drafted by Anderson and approved in S on September 7. The meeting was held in Secretary Rusk’s office. A detailed summary of this conversation was transmitted to Bonn in telegram 510, August 23. (Ibid., 611.61/8–2362)
1. Memoranda of the conversations on the non-diffusion of nuclear weapons and U.S. relations with the Federal Republic of Germany are ibid., Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330.
2. In telegram 251 from Berlin, August 23, Hulick reported that three APCs had appeared at Checkpoint Charlie with armed soldiers standing in them. Although the soldiers sat down when asked, they stood up again on the way to the Soviet war memorial in West Berlin and on the return trip. (Ibid., Central Files, 762.00/8–2362)