Foreign Relations of the United States, 1981–1988, Volume IV, Soviet Union, January 1983–March 1985

293. Information Memorandum From the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Canadian Affairs (Burt) to Secretary of State Shultz¹

Washington, October 16, 1984

SUBJECT

• Chernenko’s October 15 Washington Post Interview

Embassy Moscow called about 12:30 p.m. to say that Post Moscow correspondent Dusko Doder had an interview with Chernenko this morning and had called to inform Art Hartman about it.² Subsequently, Post Managing Editor Len Downie informed EUR Deputy Jim Dobbins at lunch that most of the “interview” had been written answers to written questions, but that Chernenko had called Doder in this morning to hand it over and talked to him for 20 minutes. Mike Armacost was later told that Doder reported that Chernenko had appeared vigorous, and that his breathing problem was not as severe as usual.

Matlock asked Tom Simons to try to get a copy, but Downie—an old colleague of Simons from London—refused to give him one, and referred him instead to Lou Cannon, who is soliciting comments from around town, including Sims and McFarlane at the White House. As Cannon described it, Chernenko did not repeat the precondition that Pershings be withdrawn before negotiations could be resumed, but otherwise all his written answers tracked with Gromyko’s UNGA speech. Simons warned him that the precondition on Pershings flits in and out, but the general umbrella precondition has been “removal of obstacles” for some months. Cannon found that in the text, so it appears the written formulations were standard.

In the 20 minutes of verbal exchange, Chernenko answered Doder’s questions:

—On the US elections, he said that whoever is President of the USA, Soviet peace policy will remain the same.

—Asked if he were optimistic, he said there were “considerable” possibilities, “very considerable” ones, in US-Soviet relations, and Soviet proposals proved it. Silencing his key advisor Aleksandrov, he went on to reiterate the standard line that Gromyko originated with you, and had repeated by the Politburo, that the Soviets thus far see no businesslike shifts toward practical steps in our policy. The Washington talks need to be translated onto practical tracks, he said, and if the President’s current approach is not just tactical, “I will not be found wanting.”

—Asked about small steps, he said they are okay, but cloud people’s minds. He then referred back to his written answers concerning four areas where the USSR had made proposals which the US had turned down: 1) space arms control (Cannon said the written answer used the June 29 proposal formulation); 2) nuclear freeze; 3) finalizing the 1974/1976 nuclear testing treaties; and 4) non-first-use of nuclear weapons (Cannon said he did not mention conventional weapons).

After we notified Matlock of the interview, the NSC staff met with Poindexter and will have met with Bud at 5:00 p.m. Poindexter’s inclination was to try to defer a substantive response till Sunday,³ but Matlock agreed with us that this would probably be untenable. They are recommending to Bud that he call Cannon, tell him we will study the interview and may respond, but respond only to the accusation that we have made no practical proposals for forward movement (we have put language that tracks with this approach up front in the draft Department press guidance, attached).⁴ Meanwhile, they will prepare White House press guidance for noon tomorrow, to be adjusted once we have the text of the interview in hand. Our draft guidance is subject to similar adjustment.

From the Soviet point of view, the timing of the interview obviously has something to do with the President’s debate with Mondale this Sunday.⁵ Former Carter NSC staffer and Mondale operative Bob Hunter, who was also at the lunch with Post editor Downie, was excited to get the news to Mondale, and eager to answer any questions the Post might have. Chernenko’s giving the nuclear freeze second billing behind space arms control is also internal evidence that they have the debate in mind in putting out this interview in Washington now, since they know the freeze is a non-starter with the Administration.

At the same time, Chernenko’s specific formulations appear to have been very standard indeed, and the Soviet domestic policy ramifications of putting him forward at this time are probably even more interesting than the foreign policy angle. After his hospitalization in August, evidence pointing toward early retirement started to multiply, but he has been making a comeback since early September: first a whole series of public appearances, domestic and with foreigners; then rumors that the “extraordinary” Central Committee plenum at the end of this month would be marked by publication of a new draft party program and announcement of a party congress next year rather than as scheduled in February 1986; now this interview. You will recall that Gromyko spoke to both you and the President in the name of the entire leadership “and Chernenko personally;” now he himself has said that if the President is willing “I will not be found wanting.” So although early retirement is still a possibility, it would be unwise to write Chernenko off at this point.

1. Source: Department of State, Executive Secretariat, S/S, Executive Secretariat Special Caption Documents, 1979–1989, Lot 92D630, Not for the System Documents, October 1984. Secret. Drafted by Simons; cleared by Dobbins and Niles. Shultz’s handwritten initials are on the memorandum, indicating he saw it. McKinley’s handwritten initials are also on the memorandum, indicating he saw it on October 16. In a covering note forwarding the memorandum to the White House, McKinley wrote: “Paul, The Secretary wanted Bud to have this internal memo. Brunson.”
2. See Dusko Doder, “Chernenko Says U.S. Holds Key to Arms Talks,” Washington Post, October 17, 1984, p. A1; and “The Chernenko Interview,” Washington Post, October 18, 1984, p. A20.
3. October 21.
4. A copy of the October 17 draft Department of State Press Guidance is located in Department of State, Executive Secretariat, S/S, Executive Secretariat Special Caption Documents, 1979–1989, Lot 92D630, Not for the System Documents, Oct 1984. The White House Statement issued on October 17 is in Documents on Disarmament, 1984, pp. 734–735.
5. On October 21, President Reagan and Democratic Presidential candidate Walter Mondale held a debate focused on foreign policy in Kansas City, Missouri. For the full text, see Public Papers: Reagan, 1984, Book II, pp. 1589–1608.