Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964–1968, Volume XIV, Soviet Union

182. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Washington, October 14, 1966.

SUBJECT

• Fisheries and East-West Trade

PARTICIPANTS

• Senator Warren Magnuson of Washington
• Mr. Grinstein, Counsel
• Ambassador L. E. Thompson, S/AL
• Mr. Joseph J. Wolf, G/PM

Ambassador Thompson called on the Senator at the latter’s suggestion. The Senator said that he wished to convey some impressions stemming from his recent trip to Moscow.² He thought that his contacts with the Soviet Fisheries people in Moscow demonstrated an awareness on their part of the importance of withdrawing their current fishing activities off the West Coast if other relations were to improve. All the Soviet people he had met seemed to be interested in improved East-West trade. The Senator had been frank to indicate that prospects for increased East-West trade would be harmed if the fishing problem remained unsolved.

The Senator said that, as the father of the East-West Trade Bill, he had to say that the bill could not move forward through the Congress next year if the Soviet fishing activities off the West Coast continued unchecked.

Ambassador Thompson said that in the talks with the Soviets in New York last week, he had at least twice stressed to Dobrynin that it was important that these matters be taken care of. Dobrynin had indicated he understood.

Senator MAGNUSON emphasized that it was a human political problem, as the people of Washington could stand on the shore and see Soviet fishing fleets offshore. The Soviets were getting a minimal catch that was just a drop in the bucket to their global take, and they would be foolish to continue to irritate Americans in this way. There had been one or two shots fired already; unless it was stopped there could be serious violence between fishermen. Sport fishermen were also annoyed at the Soviet presence, and blamed any bad fishing on that. The Soviets also are taking hake, at the same time that the Congress has appropriated funds for a hake reduction plant in Washington. The Senator passed around a sample of the full page publicity this was receiving in Washington papers.

He said that he had not tried to connect this problem with the upcoming King Crab talks when he was in Moscow, a tactic which Ambassador Thompson approved. Ambassador Thompson suggested that the Soviets probably realize the little gain and great risk involved in this operation, but might be slow to agree not to fish offshore, since they might wish to use this as a bargaining point again and again. On the other hand, their conduct might change soon, a possibility Dobrynin had indicated.

Mr. Grinstein said he would be going to Moscow for the technical talks in November that were scheduled, but that the research by U.S. fishing interests was as yet inadequate to establish damage by the Soviet operations. He wondered if he should call the talks off, or postpone them. Ambassador Thompson said that the Russians would read too much into either a postponement or cancellation and suggested that the talks go forward as scheduled, even if our evidence was by no means conclusive.

The Senator said that he was glad that he was able to get Ambassador Thompson’s views, since Mr. Mann’s departure had left him without a focal point on the fishing question. Ambassador Thompson said that Mr. Rostow had been asked by the Secretary to supervise all fisheries matters.

The Senator again stressed the important connection between clearing up the West Coast fisheries problem of close inshore Soviet commercial fishing, if the East-West Trade Bill was to move. He would be seeing the President on both these subjects Sunday night and would speak to him along these lines.

Ambassador Thompson again stressed the recognition we gave to the importance of the problem, and the fact that we would continue to press this on the Soviet representatives. He hoped Mr. Grinstein would pass on the results of his November talks.

1. Source: National Archives and Records Administration, RG 59, Central Files 1964–66, INCO-FISH US. Confidential. Drafted by Wolf on October 17 and approved in S/AL on October 20.
2. Senator MAGNUSON was in Moscow September 30–October 4. He met with the Minister of Fisheries, an official of the Ministry of Trade, and an official of the Academy of Sciences. Reports of his meetings were transmitted in airgrams A–573 and A–574, October 7; a summary report of his visit is in airgram A–575, October 11. (Airgrams A–573 and A–575; ibid., LEG 7 MAGNUSON; A–574; ibid., FT US USSR)