273. Memorandum of Telephone Conversation Between the Under Secretary of State (Ball) and President Johnson1
Ball reported to the President that Goldberg had made a courtesy call on the Italian Govt and the press had not created any problems.
Ball said we had had word from Paris that De Gaulle is prepared to see Goldberg at noon tomorrow. Ball said the radio was announcing that Harriman had seen Gomulka and was seeing Tito. Ball said there were two proposals for H. 1) H might go on to India because India is a member of the ICC. Pres thought this a very good idea. In covering this Pres thought it should be said that the Pres had given his views in some detail to PM Wilson, Chancellor Erhard, and Ayub Khan. He had sent McG Bundy to talk to Pearson; Goldberg to certain diplomats at the UN and to the Pope because the Pope had been in communication with the Pres and the Pres wanted him to know his views on VN; Goldberg will also be seeing others. Pres said he thought Mann should fly down and see the Pres of Mexico and tell him how strongly we feel; how much we are trying; what we are trying to do. Pres thought India as head of the Commission should be talked to. Pres thought Shastri needs a little buttering up. Shastri should be told how much we are looking forward to his visit; what a fine visit we had with his Agricultural Minister; we thought the talks went very well with Ayub although there is a lot of bitterness there; we thought the visit with Ayub a plus; we are getting our experts together to go to India on their food problem; and tell him how we feel on VN; what can they do; we salute them; we just want to keep them informed.
Ball agreed these were all good points and it would be good to get Harriman out to see Shastri before he leaves for Tashkent and sees the Russians. Pres thought in talking to Shastri the point to be stressed would be the food problem and his visit. This gives it a little cover and we don’t want to give the impression that we are in a panic or frantic, the Pres said.
Pres said he wanted to be sure that every person that should be informed of our views is informed and that we come through loud and clear. Pres said Ball knows how he feels—like Ball on this peace business—but he is not sure this has been conveyed. Pres thinks that this is now a good chance to do this.
Pres said he had talked to Bundy and told him to get in touch with Ball and for them to spend an hour to see who has not been informed and [Page 750] who could be informed. Pres said it did no harm for an Ambassador to say the Pres of the US asked me to tell you that he wants you to know how he feels.
Pres said for Ball to get the Mann thing cleared up. Ball said he would do that right away.
Pres said if it could be arranged for Harriman to go by New Delhi it might be a good idea for him to come by and see Nasser. Ball agreed with this. Pres thought they should be informed right away so they would not think they were on the second table.
Ball told the Pres that the Hungarians would rather not have Harriman at the moment. They have given the impression this would embarrass them.
Ball said that our intelligence people had told us that Shelepin would probably be in Hanoi over the week-end.
Ball said that Harriman had come in asking about seeing Bo in Paris. Ball told the Pres that we had another contact we were reactivating there on another basis. Pres thought we had better be careful here and he did not think it wise for Harriman to see Bo. Pres said he would leave it up to Ball’s judgment. Ball said he thought it would create problems. Pres said Ball should tell Harriman to see just the above two and when he finishes seeing them we would have other plans—imply that H will come by there (Paris) later, but we don’t want the visits too close together. Pres said we did not want to mess the Bo thing up.
Pres asked Ball if he had any ideas for Moyers. Pres said he had to be a little more affirmative. Pres suggested saying, “The Pres, Sec. of State and Bundy have been giving their views. We are going to other capitals. The discussions that are taking place are not in any way unusual.” Ball said he thought this good enough and that the press would be fairly understanding.
Pres said he thought Ball should give some serious thought to getting away a few hours and flying down to talk to Fulbright. Pres said Ball was first to explain to Fulbright that the stories about his not being invited to the WH had no basis and were nonsense. Pres said there was no custom where the head of the For. Relations Committee had to be invited to all the WH functions. Pres said they had checked the records and found that Fulbright had been invited to the WH at least three times more than anybody else. Second, when Princess Margaret was here, Fulbright had been in New Zealand. Third, no one but govt people had been invited to the Wilson dinner. And there was nothing significant about Ayub that they thought should call for including Fulbright in the dinner. Pres said Ball should tell Fulbright that he (the President) had been laughing about most of this bunk and that he thought most of it was coming from Marcy. Re VN Ball should point out that this is what Fulbright has been saying and the Pres is trying to show our real feelings in the matter [Page 751] and our attempt to do so is not because we are in a panic. Ball should tell him that Bundy talked to Pearson; Pres talked to Erhard; Bruce talked to Wilson. This is just reiteration of our points and our feelings. It is just an execution of what Fulbright has talked about. Ball should try to make it a Fulbright proposal.
President thought Ball should do the same thing with Mansfield. Ball should say the President had thought it over carefully and thought he should try for peace. Goldberg and Harriman do not have any great hope but in effect are doing what Mansfield has said. Pres said Ball should do this if he has someone in the Dept who could take over for him. Ball said that Johnson was backstopping him. Pres said this was fine if he had enough initiative to go on through. Ball said that Dirksen was also in Florida. Pres said Ball should tell Fulbright, Mansfield, and Dirksen not to tell anyone that he is coming down.
Ball mentioned Hickenlooper. Pres said he should be talked to. Pres said Hickenlooper says he does not know enough. Ball should emphasize that this is just a continuation of what the President has said—starting in Baltimore. Ball should not let Hickenlooper think we are retreating. Re the bombing nothing much could be gained by bombing during Holy Week; the weather is not good; and we are just telling everybody about our position.
Pres told Ball to get Mann out and for him to say we are exchanging views. Ball is to tell Mann he should come back by the Ranch.
Ball said re the Goldberg visit to De Gaulle, they would like not to have it announced until after the meeting. Pres agreed with this.
Pres thought more thought should be given to seeing some other people. He said the main thing was to call them and tell them that the President had asked Ball to talk to them.
- Source: Johnson Library, Papers of George Ball, Telephone Conversations, Presidential Conversations. No classification marking. The President was in Texas; Ball was in Washington.↩