Office of the Historian

94. Memorandum of Conversation1

US/MC/10
Paris, August 7, 1961, 11:30 a.m.

Ministerial Consultations on BerlinParis, August 4–9, 1961

PARTICIPANTS

  • United States
    • The Secretary of State
    • Ambassador Gavin
    • Ambassador Harriman
    • Mr. Tubby
    • Mr. Brown
  • United Kingdom
    • Lord Home
    • Ambassador Pierson Dixon
    • Mr. MacDonald
    • Mr. Peck
    • Mr. Butler
    • Mr. Russell
  • France
    • M. Couve de Murville
    • Ambassador Falaize
    • M. Lucet
    • M. Roux
    • M. Richer
    • M. Baraduc
    • M. Sauvagnatgues

SUBJECT

  • Tripartite Meeting on the Congo

The Secretary opened the discussion of the Congo by calling attention to a news report that Tshombe planned to send Parliamentarians to Léopoldville. We have no confirmation of this, but it would be welcome news. We are encouraged by the fact that a Government has been formed in Léopoldville. This will make it difficult for Gizenga to set up an enclave in Stanleyville. There are, of course, problems which remain. Will Katanga come into the central government perhaps through some sort of federal system? It is also our hope that we can see a viable government formed which can pay the Congo’s way and take the burden off the U.N. Pressures on the U.N. treasury are extreme. Recent developments in the Congo have been good and the prospects seem better than they have for a long time. Our immediate concern is to get Katanga involved with the Léopoldville Government and to get the “odd balls” out of Stanleyville.

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Couve agreed that Katanga is the big problem and it would be to our advantage to have it involved with Léopoldville. If the Léopoldville Government had Tshombe on one side and Gizenga on the other, it would be in a stronger position, as Gizenga’s strength would be proportionately diluted.

Lord Home agreed that the Adoula Government is better than what we have had before. He thought that the pressures that the U.N. has been putting on Tshombe are spoiling his bargaining powers. He may lose more confidence now. If he is willing to send his deputies to Léopoldville, the Gizenga forces will be in a minority. Should all this take place, we may be able to reduce the U.N. presence. The U.N.’s financial position is terrible and it is unknown how long it can carry on. It must do so at this time.

Couve recalled that one of the chief reasons for sending troops in the first place was to cope with tribal warfare and provide safety for the European population. There are few disorders and tribal warfare has decreased. Thus, this could lead to a reduction of troops.

Lord Home replied that there is, however, the task of getting the army in order. Gizenga may also have private troops. Therefore we must continue the U.N. effort a bit longer. It has paid off for the West and has kept the Soviets out.

Couve said that Kasavubu is the central figure. The formation of the government is due in great measure to his clever handling.

The Secretary interjected that Linner had done a good job.

Couve agreed, at least in comparison.

The Secretary said that, during the Nigerian Prime Minister’s visit,2 we had been impressed with Nigeria’s interest in the Congo and in the moderating efforts it has undertaken. Nigeria and the Monrovia group are exerting a good influence both in the Congo and at the U.N.

Lord Home mentioned Nkrumah and Couve said that when he misbehaves the more moderate African powers come up on our side. He then referred to the difficulties that Youlou3 is causing. France has tried to cope with Youlou but has not been successful.

The Secretary concluded by stating that, if the French are encouraged by the course events are taking in the Congo, we would welcome a modification of the French stand in the U.N. He added that the French Government is, of course, well aware of our views on this subject.

  1. Source: Department of State, Conference Files: Lot 65 D 366, CF 1940. Secret. Drafted by Deputy Director of the Office of Western European Affairs L. Dean Brown and approved in S on August 9. The meeting was held at the Quai d’Orsay. Those not previously identified include Ambassador to France James M. Gavin, Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs Roger W. Tubby, British Ambassador to France Sir Pierson Dixon, and French Ambassador to Laos Pierre-Louis Falaize.↩
  2. Prime Minister Balewa visited the United States July 25–28. He and President Kennedy discussed the situation in the Congo on July 27. A memorandum of the conversation is in the Kennedy Library, National Security Files, Nigeria. A memorandum of a July 25 conversation between Kennedy and Balewa is scheduled for publication in volume XXI.↩
  3. Abbe Fulbert Youlou, President of the Republic of Congo.↩