[Enclosure]
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Acting
Secretary of State1
[Washington,] March 22,
1939.
| Participants: |
The President; Don Ascanio dei
principi Colonna, Royal Italian Ambassador; Mr. Welles,
Acting Secretary. |
After the President concluded his formal reception of the Italian
Ambassador this afternoon, he asked the Ambassador to come into
the Red Room with him in order that they might have a personal
conversation at which I was present.
The President commenced the conversation by asking the Ambassador
if he had not met him before in Paris since his face was
familiar to him, and the Ambassador replied that he had been in
Paris at the beginning of the Peace Conference as Secretary to
Signor Scialoja who was then Minister for Foreign Affairs.
[Page 621]
The President said he was particularly glad to welcome the
Ambassador to Washington.
The President then continued by stating that the Ambassador, of
course, had not yet been here long enough to familiarize himself
with conditions in the United States but that he wanted him to
realize that with the complete liberty of the press which
existed in this country there was a great deal that was said
that did not truly represent American public opinion. He said he
thought that often a false impression was created in European
countries as to the importance of press statements or the
utterances of public officials and the President referred
specifically to a speech which might be made by an individual
senator and which might be regarded as important, for example,
in Germany, but which in reality in no sense reflected the bulk
of public opinion in the United States. The President said that
the Ambassador should realize that in this country of ours of
130 millions of people, there were represented large elements
which might in their origin be Italian, or English, or German,
but that the important fact to remember was that the United
States was in fact united, with the immense majority of the
people speaking not only the same language, but sharing the same
thoughts. The President said that at the present time the people
of the United States felt very deeply with regard to the
situation in Europe and that there was no question that if war
broke out as a result of a policy of military aggression on the
part of one country or group of countries against non-aggressive
European nations, the sympathies of the American people would be
overwhelmingly with the latter. The President stated that it was
not a question of an insistence by this people on the form of
government which European peoples should have, but on the
contrary a deep-rooted opposition to the carrying out on the
part of any nation of a policy of military domination which
jeopardized the peace of the world and, consequently, the vital
interests of all peace-loving peoples. The President said that
in a very real sense the question at issue was a moral issue and
that he believed that the influence of the United States was
effective not only because of the size of the United States and
the number of its people and not only because of its capacity
for turning out manufactured goods and for the raw materials
which it could offer, but also because of the moral influence
which it represented.
The President then turned personally to the Ambassador and said
that he knew well of the close connection between the
Ambassador’s family and the Vatican and that the same principles
which were upheld by the Catholic church and by the Pope were
the principles which were upheld by the Government and the
people of the United States and that he believed that those
principles would be triumphant.
[Page 622]
The President then stated that he believed that Il Duce had a
very great opportunity presented to him today to prevent the
world from being thrown into war. He said that in the first
place there was no question that the neutrality legislation in
the United States would be speedily amended and that should war
break out for the reasons he had previously indicated, the
people of the United States would certainly insist that such
assistance as this country could render the countries which were
the object of aggression in Europe be rendered to the fullest
extent possible. The President said that Il Duce must surely
bear in mind the fact that Europe could not contain two
overlords at the same time and that if Hitler persisted in his
present course he would undoubtedly throw over Mussolini at any
moment that seemed to him expedient, but from the larger
standpoint, the President believed that if Mussolini were now to
delay forcing the issue he would not only be counted responsible
for averting the outbreak of a European war, but would also have
the opportunity to gain any just concessions which he believed
essential as the result of discussions which could readily take
place around a council table. The President said that he
regretted that he himself had not had the opportunity of
personally meeting and of talking with Mussolini because he
believed that such an opportunity for discussion between the two
might be useful and because he believed they would find that
they “spoke the same language”. The President said that the
people of the United States possessed only the most friendly and
kindliest feelings for the Italian people as they had done over
a period of many generations. At this point the Ambassador
interjected that the Italian people possessed exactly the same
feeling for the people of the United States. The President then
continued by saying that since this was the case, it was very
much to be hoped that the United States would not find itself in
a position where it had to feel unsympathetic or opposed to the
position which might be assumed by Italy. The President
reiterated that Mussolini had a great opportunity by holding off
until such time as a reasonable adjustment of the concessions to
which he felt Italy was entitled could be worked out through
conference and discussion to avert a European conflagration
which would only prove disastrous to Italy herself as well as to
the other powers involved.
The President said that he did not have in mind any great
conference such as that of Versailles or of Vienna, but
discussions among a limited number of people, and that while he
himself, the President, would not take the initiative because he
did not desire to have it thought by the European powers that
the United States was “butting into European affairs”, he did
feel that Mussolini himself should take the initiative. The
President stated that if Mussolini took the initiative in the
manner he proposed he could be sure that he himself,
[Page 623]
the President, would
lend his support to the finding of a reasonable solution in
every possible manner.
The Ambassador inquired whether the President would not put this
message in writing. The President replied that he thought it was
very much easier to explain the thoughts that he had orally to
Mussolini’s Representative in Washington as he had done, but
that the Ambassador was, of course, at entire liberty to inform
Mussolini immediately of his conversation with the
President.
The attitude of the Ambassador changed completely during the
course of his conversation with the President. It was perfectly
evident from watching his face that he sympathized completely
with the suggestions made by the President.
The President concluded the conversation by saying that if at any
time the Ambassador received a personal message for the
President from Mussolini he had only to let me know and I would
inform the President accordingly.
