208. Memorandum of Conversation, Washington, August 5, 1975, 7 p.m.1 2
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Memorandum of Conversation
DATE: August 5, 1975
The White House
7:00 p.m.
SUBJECT: President’s Tete-a-Tete with Prime Minister
PARTICIPANTS:
- Prime Minister Takeo Miki
- Masao Kunihiro, Advisor to Prime Minister (Interpreter)
- The President
- James J. Wickel, Department of State (Interpreter)
Miki: Thank you for taking the time to receive me this evening. I know you must be tired after your trip.
President: I feel good.
Miki: You’re still in good shape because of your training as an athlete.
President: No, I’m a has been. But I do sleep well on a plane. I got 5 or 6 hours sleep on the plane and 4 more here last night, I feel good.
Miki: I find it easy to talk to Parliamentarians who are elected to office, like you, Mr. President.
President: I feel the same way, Mr. Prime Minister.
POLITICAL PROSPECTS: JAPAN
Miki: You and I, Mr. President, also came to our present offices under similar conditions, you after Watergate and I after Tanaka’s financial scandal. However, I have led a long life as a Parliamentarian and feel that the circumstances which brought me to power were not limited to Tanaka’s financial scandal. I believe it involved a deeper problem that we face, that is, that popular support for “conservative democracy” in Japan is weakening, and if the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) wishes to remain in power, it must practice “liberal democracy.”
[Page 2]The LDP has become increasingly a “conservative democratic” party. In each of the three elections conducted since 1967, when its share of the vote first fell below 50 percent, the LDP vote declined, to 46.9 percent in the most recent General Election in 1972. In the Upper House election last July its vote was 39.8 percent. But I believe strongly that the LDP is the only force for stability in government.
However, I have also been telling the Japan Socialist Party, the largest of the four opposition parties, that it should act more responsibly like a “shadow government.” As you know the JSP and the other opposition parties differ sharply from the LDP in defense and foreign policies. The JSP is changing a bit, but we will have to wait and see how much. In the meantime, though, I can appreciate the fact that you, Mr. President, might view this situation in Japan with some uneasiness.
Like you, Mr. President, my accession to power was unexpected, and I have not yet been “baptized” by the people; and late this year, or next year I will have to seek the approval of the people for my government in an election. I believe I came to power because of the consistency of the positions I have advocated throughout my 38 years as an LDP Dietman, and I am confident that the election results will lead to a more stable government supported by the people. I am also confident that I will serve a full three-year term.
For these reasons, therefore, I wish to maintain a dialog with you in the spirit of full candor. I might add there may be some things you ask of me that I can do, and some that I cannot. If I say I can do something, I will do it, and if I can’t, I will say so for I believe we can only continue to cooperate on a basis of mutual trust.
President: That is the only way to do things.
Miki: Therefore, I hope to keep in close touch with you.
President: Mr. Prime Minister, first of all let me thank you on a personal basis for the frankness and candor with which you have reviewed the Japanese situation. Your leadership is of the kind that could perpetuate strong support for the leadership in Japan. In my Congressional experience I have come to know those who can do this, and those who can’t. Based on our discussions today and several months ago you seem to me to be the kind of leader we want as a working partner.
[Page 3]May I ask, Mr. Prime Minister, in your system do you have the capability of deciding the timing of an election?
Miki: Yes. That is my biggest prerogative — I can call an election any time it is to my advantage.
President: In our system we have no choice.
Miki: Mr. President, I wish you every success next year.
President: Thank you very much. You seem to share the views I have.
ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
President: Japan is a good ally, West Germany is a good ally, France is a very good ally which is a good development and Britain is a good ally, as are other countries. If we are to combat some of the trends that will come if we have bad economic conditions, we must try to work together. My impression of what Giscard, Wilson and Schmidt said is that if we don’t improve the economic climate, the political climate could have an adverse effect on the developed industrial nations of the world. Japan has a big stake in this. Therefore we talked in general about the problem without any commitment, but we all felt that it could be disastrous for democratic government if we were to have adverse economic conditions develop in the future.
Our economic picture is improving, but we can’t do it alone — we have to coordinate how we can work together to achieve a coordinated plan. We wish to work with you because your re-election is vital to Japan and the industrial nations we represent.
COALITION POLITICS
President: I apologize for not knowing much about the JSP, but I am always apprehensive about compromising with the wrong people (based on my own experience in Congress). Is the JSP responsibly led? Does it have good ideology? Would you feel confident, and do you feel I would feel confident with the JSP in a coalition?
Miki: I have no intention of forming a coalition. The LDP must continue to hold the government for a considerable period, but not permanently. Our views differ greatly from those of the JSP, but I feel we need the JSP to understand our position; in other words, to put the JSP in the position of agreeing to disagree.
[Page 4]The opposition parties all criticized my visit to the United States, in the public press, to spare Japan becoming subservient or overburdened. But privately the chairmen of all the opposition parties, except the Japan Communist Party (JCP) telephoned to wish me well. They are in the process of changing, and I will continue my policy of avoiding confrontation, and seeking dialog and cooperation.
President: By way of analogy, we feel very strongly that the problem in Europe is that some governments among our allies will accept the Communist Party into a coalition. We are totally opposed to such a coalition. NATO cannot be strong with a communist party in the government in Italy or elsewhere. We can’t have a strong NATO on that basis. I have told the Italians this, and I believe it is equally true elsewhere.
Miki: Last year we had local elections in April, after I became Prime Minister, and while the LDP couldn’t recapture the Governerships of Tokyo and Osaka held by opposition party incumbents, we won all the other governorships. The LDP also gained ever 100 seats in local assemblies, while the JCP lost some. I don’t believe the JCP will continue to grow, and I won’t let them.
President: May I ask a question. You are the best authority, but is the JCP internationally oriented, or domestically?
Miki: The JCP has some contact with the Soviet Union, but it is generally domestically oriented.
President: Is it oriented more to Moscow than Peking?
Miki: The JCP is at loggerheads with Peking; their relations are very bad.
President: That’s very interesting.
GISCARD PROPOSAL
Miki: I agree with your remarks, Mr. President, on Giscard’s proposal for a five-power economic conference, and did so publicly in the press, that is that a preliminary conference would be required to establish an agenda. I would hope that this would come as a U.S. initiative. I believe Giscard’s [Page 5] proposal to discuss only monetary problems is too “narrow,” and the five advanced industrial powers should discuss the full spectrum of economic matters.
President: I think we should proceed on an informal basis, rather than formal. I don’t know your situation, but I think an informal arrangement — for discussions by a person you would name, and persons named by Giscard, Wilson and Schmidt — would be a better way to lay the groundwork. We have a great mutual interest in doing something, but the minute this becomes formal, it complicates my problems at home. What we want is results, not public acclaim. We want success, and economic success would be of the greatest importance economically and politically from the standpoint of the developed industrial nations.
Our situation looks good, but we can’t go it alone. All the nations should improve their economic circumstances if we are to be successful as nations in the free world.
Miki: May I infer that you would agree to convene a five-power conference as long as preparations are made in informal talks?
President: Generally, yes, but that depends on how well the representatives of the five powers lay the foundation. It would be disastrous if we entered negotiations at the Summit with disagreements among us. We should agree in advance to coordinate our views.
Miki: I agree.
President: We would agree to hold the conference if there are adequate preparations, but if there are disagreements, we could not hold it.
U.S.-JAPAN COOPERATION
President: Mr. Prime Minister, I believe our talks this morning, and this evening man-to-man, have been constructive. It is important that the United States and Japan cooperate. You and I will do so. I wish you the best and know you will enjoy success in your election. We expect to succeed in our election, 14 months from now. All I can see for you is pluses, not minuses.
Miki: I believe mutual trust between the top leaders is the most important key to successful diplomatic relations. The [Page 6] leaders must know each other as human beings. With your understanding and assistance I know Japan and the United States can have that kind of successful relations. As I said earlier, I will tell you “no” in all frankness when there is something I can’t do for you.
President: And the reverse of that is if I disagree, I hope we can keep the level of our rhetoric low, because a public display is not good.
Miki: Of course.
President: We should minimize any disagreement.
Miki: It is not good taste in a friendly relationship to accentuate differences publicly.
President: In the Congress (and I am a product of the Congress) there is an old saying “We can disagree without being disagreeable.”
Miki: Like yourself, Mr. President, I am a product of the Diet. My government is dedicated to clean politics and reform, which meets some resistance from some sectors of the LDP, but not as much as the press reports.
President: Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister. This talk has been very constructive. May I escort you downstairs to dinner.
- Source: Ford Library, National Security Adviser, Memoranda of Conversation, Box 14. Top Secret; Exdis. Drafted by Wickel. The conversation took place in the White House. The next day, Ford told Kissinger and Scowcroft, “The private conversation wasn’t much. I think he wanted it mostly for prestige.” (Memorandum of Conversation, August 6, 9:50–10:05 a.m.; ibid.)↩
- Ford and Miki discussed domestic politics, economic conditions, the French proposal for a five-power economic conference, and U.S.-Japan cooperation.↩