Office of the Historian

198. Memorandum of Conversation1

Washington, July 28, 1975.

SUBJECT

  • Secretary Kissinger’s Meeting with Congressman Fraser and Colleagues

PARTICIPANTS

  • STATE DEPARTMENT

    • Secretary Kissinger
    • Deputy Secretary Ingersoll
    • Under Secretary Maw
    • Assistant Secretary McCloskey
    • James Wilson
    • William B. Richardson (notetaker)

  • CONGRESS

    • Congressman Fraser
    • Senator Bumpers
    • Congresswoman Meyner
    • Congressman Buchanan
    • Congressman Biester
    • Senator Cranston
    • Congressman Gude
    • Congressman Bingham
    • Congressman Badillo

  • STAFFERS

    • John Salzberg (Fraser)
    • Robert Boettcher (Fraser)
    • William Jackson (Cranston)
    • William Reintzes (Gude)

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to Chile.]

Fraser: On Chile, I strongly regret the cancellation of the visit by the U.N. Working Group, especially since this took place a day or two before they were physically in Chile. The Chileans have also kicked a Washington reporter out. What we seem to be getting out of this whole group is much of the same.

Kissinger: We made strong representation on this Working Group matter and we sincerely regret what happened. I think that that sort of government has the same attitudes of the Greek junta and there is a great possibility of them becoming an empty shell. Also there is a great danger that this movement will go in the direction of Portugal, which would be bad for Latin America. I am concerned about future political developments in Chile. We could have a situation where the younger military officers may stop looking towards the United States [Page 532] and acquire views similar to the Portuguese military officers there. There could be no structure left and we could get stuck with a left wing dictatorship, farther left than Allende.

On Chile, we have made more representations on human rights than any other country. I don’t know about any better alternative. I really don’t know how to navigate on this matter. I am unhappy with the U.N. action. I do think that by showing an understanding of their problems, we can move them more toward our views on human rights. Both Rogers and I were very disappointed with what happened. Both Bill and I hope we can allow this study to take place. All of these problems feed on each other. For example, because of Congressional sensibilities the United States Government has held back $10 million in housing aid. The Chileans were supposed to get $30 million, but have only received $20 million so far, all of this for human rights reasons. The Chileans feel they will be harrassed no matter what they do. They feel they are probably being used by us. In the Turkish matter, for example, it has been that if one gets into a confrontation position, no one achieves what they want. I don’t know enough about Chile, whether they have enough incentives to improve their domestic situation. On the military side, the Chileans are paranoid about a threat from Peru. They certainly noted a cut off of military aid effective last month. Who sat in on that meeting with the Under Secretary a few days ago? Was it you Carl? What were the reasons they gave for turning down that U.N. Group?

Maw: They wanted to postpone the visit because they felt the present time was not propitious. They don’t want it now and they were also objecting to the composition of this group. The Chileans did tell me, however, that they would like Congressional groups to go down there and look at the situation.

Fraser and Buchanan: That would be a good idea. (Badillo, Meyner and Biester also concurred by shaking their heads and expressing interest).

Kissinger: Sounds like a good idea. Let’s see what would happen if we could lift the arms embargo for one year and use it as leverage for getting progress on human rights. We would then make a massive effort to persuade the Chileans to improve their human rights performance. We would see what would happen. The Chileans would not be receiving much military aid any way. Can we try this? I realize this is also a Kennedy matter and he is not present.

Fraser: The House cut military aid with a human rights waiver.

Bumpers: What was the final cut?

Kissinger: The final cut was from $20 million to, I think, the House cut it to $10 million. It was cut in conference. I think the Chileans think [Page 533] of this in terms of principle rather than in actual terms of figures. We have expended a lot of credit to the Congress on this. I would like to try this.

Fraser: I would prefer a variation of what you were saying. I think we should ask the Chilean Government for some specific steps for them to take as a basis for which Congress could be persuaded to resume military aid.

Kissinger: Let’s try it and be in touch.

Fraser: Mr. Secretary, I wasn’t thinking about $15 or $20 million military aid. Chile is in the Military Aid bill and it will probably be going solo unless it is linked with aid to Israel. If the Chile bill goes solo, it will be a very hot item. Some of us could, however, support a modest program, if this was preceded by improvements in human rights.

Kissinger: Let’s talk to the Chileans and I will put Bill Rogers on this. I must say that the principle may be the most important issue in this whole business.

Buchanan and Meyner: We like this approach. We should work it out.

Bingham: I still want to know why the PL–480 share for Chile is so disproportionate.

Kissinger: I assure you it is not on the basis of the historical record. I can only reemphasize that we do not want to drive the Chileans back to even the left of Allende. We must retain a margin of influence there. Last year we didn’t have any because military aid was completely cut off. Can I see if PL–480 share for Chile conforms historically with what we have done in Latin America?

Bingham: I don’t want to stretch this thing out. It is not a hot item. Our Committee is involved with this for the first time.

Kissinger: Carl Maw will get you these figures.

[Omitted here is discussion on Asia, Voice of America, Europe, and the UNGA.]

  1. Summary: Kissinger and Maw discussed Chilean human rights violations and U.S. military assistance with Fraser and other members of Congress.

    Source: National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, P820123–1780. Confidential; Nodis. Drafted by Richardson on August 5.

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