Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume E–11, Part 1, Documents on Mexico; Central America; and the Caribbean, 1973–1976

464. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Santiago, Chile, June 9, 1976, 9:15 a.m.

SUBJECT

• Secretary’s Meeting with Jamaican Foreign Minister Thompson

PARTICIPANTS

• Jamaica
• Foreign Minister Dudley Thompson
• Ambassador to the United States Alfred A. Rattray
• U.S.
• The Secretary
• Assistant Secretary William D. Rogers, ARA
• Stephen Low, NSC (Notetaker)

The Secretary: I think my African trip was extremely useful. I was very impressed by Nyerere.

Thompson: He is very good. Calm, philosophical, and unemotional.

The Secretary: I believe we can keep the situation confined to the African framework. We don’t want the cold war in Africa.

Thompson: There is a lot I don’t know about Africa—Ethiopia, for instance.

The Secretary: There are a lot of anomolies even for us. In Ethiopia we give military aid. For all I know they may be anti-American.

Thompson: The situation is disorganized. Another country that is not easy to understand is Nigeria. (The Secretary was called out of the room for a phone call. The conversation continued on his return.)

The Secretary: Let’s talk about destabilization . . . but first about Africa. We have to get at the problems of Southern Africa and support development in the rest of the continent. We simply cannot accept organized military intervention by Cuba. That is a fact. There will be an American reaction; I guarantee you that, no matter what you may read in the press. Cuba can conduct a global foreign policy if it wants, but not engage in military intervention.

Thompson: Surely the initiative is not Cuba’s. The mainspring is the Soviet Union. Cuba was on the bones of her tail and doesn’t have the means or the resources to send its people that far. But what puzzles me is why is it that, if this is the case, the Russians are getting along so well with you.

The Secretary: Our relations have suffered seriously.

Thompson: The thing that affects us is the increase of tension after Angola.

The Secretary: What do you think is being done?

Thompson: Money is being poured in.

The Secretary: By whom, the CIA?

Thompson: CIA agents themselves or others. It is going into trade unions and to other disruptive elements in my country, and it is coming from the U.S.

The Secretary: There may be disruptive elements, but they don’t come from the U.S.

Mr. Rogers: At least there is nothing by way of official policy.

The Secretary: I told Prime Minister Manley that I would look into this. I did and there is nothing going on. If you produce any evidence of what is going on, we would appreciate receiving it. No private U.S. organization would do anything in a friendly country. It is possible that, if companies ask whether to put money into Jamaica, it may not be our policy but I have no doubt that, there are people in the government who might say that it is not a stable country. Frankly, I hear all the time that you are not stable.

Thompson: We have a group of unemployed men who had nothing. All of a sudden we see them in well-organized, well-equipped and supplied groups. Where does the money come from?

The Secretary: Let’s do a joint investigation. I can assure you that this money is not coming from us. If you want to say it publicly, we will get mad; but if you really want to know I can assure you about this. I can’t control every last person in the government who may advise someone against putting money into Jamaica. It is possible that, in reply to a question, someone would answer that the situation was very unstable and that they may not get their money out. You are barking up the wrong tree if you are going after us.

Thompson: I have always denied that the U.S. was directly involved.

The Secretary: I know a public relations genius when I see one. You deny everything but in the process repeat it again.

Thompson: We understand that beyond government agencies there are some elements in the U.S. that might be involved. It started in the trade unions.

The Secretary: I tell you I can’t be sure there is not some private institution which is going to spend some money, but I would be glad to have a joint investigation or else you make the investigation and tell us. There are three possibilities: first, either it is not going on; or, second, if it is, it can only come from two sources—another foreign group or, if from the U.S., from a private group without the knowledge of the government. There is absolutely no authorization for this, and I can’t imagine a private group doing it. Could we get an investigation?

Thompson: It is not a lot of money.

The Secretary: One hundred thousand, two hundred thousand?

Thompson: More. Millions . . . 1 million, maybe 2 or more.

The Secretary: When I get back I will get the FBI investigating this issue. We will say you estimate there are 1 or 2 million dollars going into Jamaica.

Thompson: Or even more. It comes from Jamaicans who left. They took it out of the country with them when they went. They sold out and are operating from America.

The Secretary: Can you give us leads—names of people you suspect?

Thompson: They are based in Miami Beach and New York.

Mr. Rogers: There may very well be a violation of U.S. law.

The Secretary: If it is going on we will put a stop to it. How do they get the money out?

Thompson: They have couriers. They took some with them and then they come back again.

The Secretary: We have to start an investigation. (To Rogers): Will you write a letter to the Attorney General. Tell him that this charge has been made and that you want to request a formal investigation of it.

Mr. Rogers: Can you suggest any one of your people with whom we can get in touch.

Thompson: G. Arthur Brown.

The Secretary: We will tell our law enforcement people to get in touch and let you know the results. You know I like Manley.

Thompson: I know you wouldn’t do anything which is not in our interest, but it is very frustrating. We try to get some money and suddenly things just dry up. Is this a conspiracy against us?

Mr. Rogers: Some of this has to be due to the banks and to normal workings of market forces.

The Secretary: What we hear is that you are moving closer and closer to Cuba. I can assure you there is no government effort here. We have done nothing to restrict credit or take any punitive action. There may be something going on with private groups, but I have not seen any evidence of this.

Thompson: There is a clear line about this. I follow it very closely. I look over every project and every single activity the Cubans are engaging in, whether it is one person for a construction project or for social development. As we move closer to Cuba, we become completely confident we have examined their system and found that it is not the one we want. Neither the Jamaican Government nor the opposition finds it applicable. The closer we get the more confirmed we are in this view. We would like the U.S. to understand this.

The Secretary: Whatever you send the people there for or whatever they put on the curriculum, it is impossible that they can spend time there without indoctrination. I can assure you of that.

Thompson: We think it is going the other way around. These fellows see things they have never seen before.

The Secretary: We have no right to tell you how to run your foreign affairs, but we are concerned that there might develop a degree of Cuban influence that would be difficult to manage. Your relations are none of our business, and we have no campaign to weaken your government.

Thompson: Take the press. There was a statement in the Wall Street Journal that we have over 300 policemen being trained in Cuba. The facts are that we have some 300 policemen trained all over the world. Two hundred fifty of them are in the United Kingdom. There are several in the U.S. and exactly three in Cuba. I gave the correction to the Wall Street Journal, and they misprinted it again, so I sent them a tape of the interview and they finally printed a correction.

The Secretary (To Rogers): Isn’t it in our internal government papers that they have 300 in Cuba?

Mr. Rogers (To Thompson): Three?

Thompson: Another time there were nine: a policeman or two, some internal security and protection people—no more than 50 have ever been trained there. Sometimes there is a special case that is being investigated but never more than 20 at any one time.

The Secretary: I thought it was 300.

Thompson: There you are!

The Secretary: We believed it officially. It is quite possible some reporter checked this in Washington. If someone was doing an article on the subject, it is possible that he would make an inquiry and get a figure like this from us, but we never announced it.

Thompson: It all passes over my desk. Every Cuban who comes in I know about. The Wall Street Journal published another article about the doubling of the Cuban Embassy staff from 38 to 68. As a matter of fact, there are 16, including drivers, in the Embassy. It is little bits of poison like this that hurt us.

The Secretary: The U.S. press has been engaged in a concerted campaign against me for over a year. We can’t control what they write. They check with us and we give them the facts. You tell our Embassy what the facts are. I thought there were three hundred.

Ambassador Rattray: I asked the State Department to correct the figures.

Mr. Rogers: That was after the story was printed.

The Secretary: They retract it in some obscure place and then reprint it in the retraction, so it gets two hearings. I don’t ask for retractions any more.

Thompson: When I complained to the Wall Street Journal I said: “This is what I said. . . .” They replied that that was not what their reporter said, so I sent them a tape of what I had told the reporter. Then there was another article in the Washington Post by Jack Anderson.

The Secretary: He is totally out of our control. I don’t exclude that there may be some complaining against Jamaica. If Jack Anderson writes something, he has checked his facts first. He printed an excerpt from a briefing I gave after I came back from Africa. It was out of context and misleading, but not totally inaccurate.

Thompson: The Jack Anderson article was about a supposed exotic terrorist sect in Jamaica that was going to the Olympics and was planning all kinds of terrorist activities. There are supposed to be 3,000 in New York City, and they came from Ethiopia and are linked with the Red Terrorists of Japan. Well, this is a hippy, flower-children type group. They smoke marihuana and are not violent. There isn’t one who knows where Japan is, and they don’t know whether Kuala Lumpur is a boy or a girl. They were religious nuts. To link them with terrorists is nonsense.

The Secretary: I don’t read him unless he mentions me. I didn’t see that article.

Thompson: The Washington Post is a prestigious paper. Whatever you think of Anderson, he is an honest man. He says that his article is based on “intelligence data” which says this.

The Secretary: If he says it, then he got hold of something.

Thompson: You know the Jamaicans. They are peaceful people and they certainly are not terrorists. These people wander around and smoke marihuana and end up in jail. There were words used in the article from locations 50 miles from Kingston. Nobody could possibly have known them unless it came from sources inside Jamaica. But he cited them as “intelligence sources.”

The Secretary (To Low): Steve, look into that. See whether there is any intelligence report on which this could have been based.

The Secretary (To Thompson): If there was a report it can’t have gone to many people. We can see who received it. It is possible that someone else leaked it to Anderson. Our discipline has eroded since the campaign started. We will begin to investigate this immediately to find out whether the transfer of funds which you believe is going on is coming from Jamaican émigrés. We’ll tell our enforcement people to get in touch with the gentleman whose name you gave us. With respect to allegations like the 300 Jamaicans in Cuba, if you make sure that we are properly informed on things like this before the stories appear, we won’t wittingly spread such stories. I see reports, and our Ambassador believes that there is a systematic anti-U.S. campaign going on in Jamaica. He has been trying to see Manley for some time. He is very exercised about the situation. I can even say he is outraged. I don’t follow it closely myself but apparently your government sent a telegram of appreciation to the Latin American journalists meeting, thanking them for the resolution on destabilization.

Thompson: A group of journalists were meeting in Mexico. There were some strong Cuban efforts there to point fingers. The Jamaican journalists refused to sign.

The Secretary: But your government congratulated them.

Thompson: They mentioned the destabilization efforts. They didn’t publicly point to the U.S.

The Secretary: Strangely enough, that word was never used by any American official, but it is a word which is clearly identified with the U.S.

Thompson: Its genesis was not far from here. Whether it comes from the trade unions or from other sources, we are finding it tough. I am speaking to you as a friend of Jamaica. We know you are sympathetic to us.

The Secretary: I tried to help you on the bauxite negotiations.

Thompson: Yes, we know. But I am sure you realize how much we need your help. They circulated a rumor that Alcoa was closing down. They did it through the trade unions.

The Secretary: Is Alcoa leaving?

Thompson: No. In fact, it was closed briefly, but Revere is still in court. There is no doubt they are trying to collect insurance. They make impossible demands—like one single item for enough cement to pave the whole island. But we are not going to expropriate. We are not going to let anyone push us into a corner. You know best how to assist us. We need financial help.

The Secretary: Let me tell you that I am well-disposed to Jamaica. It is not a country that can be a threat to us but it could be a disaster for you. I am generally well-disposed to help you get credit. I know Prime Minister Manley sent up a friend who made a request for a large sum. We don’t do that. There is an impression that Manley wants to get himself reelected on the basis of an anti-American campaign. In some quarters this is the impression.

Thompson: I am glad you mentioned this because it is false. It is utterly revolting to my mind. Manley is going to win, but not in this way.

The Secretary: It would help if we could lower the rhetoric which we address to each other. Maybe we can restore calmer conditions. We have no policy not to be helpful. I have not addressed your problem in detail, but I remember there was some very large sum you asked for.

Mr. Rogers: We have been working with the World Bank which has been consulting with Jamaica on this matter. Our problem is that Jamaica is one of the wealthiest of the underdeveloped nations on a per-capita basis. We are under a congressional mandate to restrict our assistance to the neediest. But we are trying to put something together with the Bank.

Ambassador Rattray: The difficulty is that that is long term.

Thompson: We have to look to see where we can get it quickly. It is an urgent matter with us.

The Secretary: I got a report that the Soviet Union has offered through Cuba to buy all your excess bauxite and sugar.

Thompson: That’s good news. I would sell anything they would buy. I know that Algeria is going to buy some of our bauxite, but this is news to me. It wouldn’t necessarily make Manley popular in Jamaica. There is a certain amount of anti-Americanism, but I will be frank. I heard that a part of the youth wing of our party was going to stage a march. I denied it. Some Communists were going to organize it. The march took place. That was when a Jamaican policeman was shot in front of the American Embassy. That sort of thing is what creates popularity.

The Secretary (getting up): Why don’t I write to you or to Manley within three weeks to tell you exactly what the situation is. Can you make sure that we reduce the level of rhetoric?

Thompson: What do you think of this place? I think they muffed the ball a second time. They were afraid to allow me to see anything. I like to look around and see how things are going.

The Secretary: We will operate on the basis of my statement yesterday.

Thompson: It makes me feel like Nuremberg in 1933. Just to look at this show of force makes me uncomfortable. The stark military aspect is oppressive.

The Secretary: They had a tough problem as you recognized in your speech.

Thompson: Yes, there was a fear creeping up in people. I don’t like to endorse people like this. I will not leave my name as having seen this country and been satisfied with it.

The Secretary: We won’t sign any endorsement. Will you?

1. Summary: Kissinger and Thompson discussed allegations that U.S. funds were supporting disruptive elements in Jamaica as part of a campaign of destabilization.

   Source: National Archives, RG 59, Central Foreign Policy File, P820118–1658. Secret; Nodis. Drafted by Low and approved by Collums on July 14. The meeting was held in the Secretary’s Suite at the Hotel Carrera. Kissinger and Thompson were in Santiago to attend a meeting of the OAS General Assembly. In telegram Secto 16094 from Mexico, June 11, Kissinger informed Gerard of his “extremely frank review of destabilization problem” with Thompson. (Ford Library, Gerald R. Ford Papers, Trip Briefing Books and Cables for Henry Kissinger, 1974–1976, Kissinger Trip File, Box 26, June 6–13, 1976—Latin America, Secto) Jack Anderson’s article, “Terrorist ‘Fish’ in a Sea of Tourists,” is printed in the Washington Post, May 16, 1976, p. 35. The Wall Street Journal article is not further indentified.