135. Record of Telephone Conversation Between Secretary of State Rusk and the Under Secretary of State (Ball)1

GWB called to report that we had had a long meeting this afternoon with the President and are meeting again tomorrow.2 The President has a natural reluctance but he is now fully appreciating the considerations involved. What GWB has recommended, with the support of his colleagues, is that Phil (Talbot) be authorized to offer the ground package which is the ground equipment, including only the basic M 48, A 1 tank which has the limited armament and the gasoline engine with the limited range. On supersonics he should encourage them to go to Western Europe. If this doesn’t wash he can come on back. This starts us down the road. It seems to us that there is a serious danger the King may go on to Cairo on the 10th and be persuaded to decide he is going down the other road with the other people. This is about as good a plan as we have to hold the line and see what develops. The [Page 303] general feeling is that this will not satisfy him and this deal will not be made on this basis and there will have to be further haggling. We have started talking with his neighbors who are very upset. GWB sure that part of their own rather vociferous anxiety is the desire to build up a case for some large demands on their part. It is an unattractive situation no matter how you slice it. GWB wanted to make sure the Secretary was in general accord with this line.

The Secretary thought that was right. He didn’t think that by going as far as some of the papers indicated we ought to go to avoid the problems that we will be trying to avoid that it would cure the problem. On both sides of an arms race we will be building up the United Arab Command which is aimed at Israel. GWB said we had come to the kind of conclusion to offer something not acceptable in order to have an opportunity to talk further and see what comes out. If we offer nothing we can be certain we have sent him down the other road. Talk of losing the buffer state. Jernegan interrupted to mention the comparison with the UAR in 1955 when we refused a relatively modest request for arms and within two months he (Nasser) had turned around and accepted a much larger Russian offer and has had a close relationship with the Russians ever since.

GWB mentioned the neighbors coming (Israelis) and saying don’t offer anything. Then the boss comes up to the realization they are pretty smart people but realizes they have their own domestic political problems. Secretary mentioned they were not very objective on the PL 480 business—at least not as objective as we thought they would be.

General discussion of the weather and the state of the Secretary’s health.

  1. Source: Johnson Library, Ball Papers, Jordan. No classification marking. Prepared by Helen Hennessey in Ball’s office.
  2. According to the President’s Daily Diary, he met with Ball, General Wheeler, Under Secretary Vance, Komer, and Feldman from 3:35 to 5:05 p.m. on February 5, and with Ball, Wheeler, Vance, Jack Valenti, Bill Moyers, and Komer about Jordan from 3:50 to 5:28 p.m. on February 6. (Ibid.)