450. Memorandum of Conversation0
PARTICIPANTS
- Prime Minister of Canada Lester Pearson
- Secretary of State Dean Rusk Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara
- Ambassador W. Walton Butterworth
SUBJECT
- Canadian Internal, Trade and Defense Affairs
At the invitation of the Prime Minister, the Secretary and Mrs. Rusk, Secretary McNamara, and Ambassador and Mrs. Butterworth, met with the Prime Minister and Mrs. Pearson at their residence following the dinner given at the Chateau Laurier on the evening of May 22. The Secretary’s call on the Prime Minister on the morning of May 211 was cut somewhat short due to the opening of the Parliamentary Session, and the Prime Minister obviously wished to continue the conversation, although he had no particular purposes to achieve. Accordingly, while the conversation of last evening was intimately friendly and interesting, no spot information about any specific topic emerged.
Perhaps the most noteworthy assertions of Pearson related to the British Commonwealth and the “crisis” with respect to French Canada.
As regards the former, Pearson frankly stated that the British Empire and Commonwealth, as it had previously existed, was in rapid dissolution by the emergence of colonial entities into independent states and that this advent of African Commonwealth states doomed the Commonwealth system. He expressed the hope, but by no means confidently, that some special relationship could continue to be maintained between Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom, and perhaps India. By implication he also sold the continuation of empire preferences short.
He said that the gravity of the crisis about French Canada could not be underestimated and he indicated that this would be the most difficult and dangerous issue with which his administration would have to deal. He obviously believes that the Confederation is at stake and described the extent of the ambitions of Quebec as so encompassing the functions of the central government as to constitute a state within a state, the latter to have left only such powers as control of tariffs, foreign affairs, etc.
This led to a discussion of economic policy. The Prime Minister indicated that just after the war he had favored the adoption of a free trade area with the United States but this had come to nothing because the government would not face the repercussions during the six to nine years of painful adjustment which secondary industries in Canada would have to make. He expressed himself as having had confidence then and again now in Canada’s inherent ability to stand on its own feet and compete effectively with United States industry, but he was obviously still uncertain as to how the painful transition could be made. He [Page 1208] made reference to the Canada Development Corporation and indicated it would assist Canadians in financing industrial development and in obtaining a greater ownership share in existing enterprises, but he was by no means clear how this was to be brought about or whether legal coercion was involved. The question of Canadian municipalities borrowing for non-productive purposes also was mentioned, the avoidance of which having evidently been the subject of Cabinet deliberation, no doubt in connection with the new Municipal Development and Loan Board. The Prime Minister also referred to the wheat farmers’ vote in the United States and expressed some concern about the effect on prices and whether the wheat agreements price of $1.75 could, in fact, be maintained.
In referring to the recent defense debate and vote of confidence by a mere 11 votes, the Prime Minister indicated he had instituted discussions with the French, since the bases of some of the Canadian squadrons were in France and, therefore, presented a problem of storage of nuclear weapons. He pointed out that due to the attitude the Diefenbaker government had taken in refusing to store weapons in Canada on the theory that war heads could be picked up at the last moment in the United States, he could not and would not attempt to solve the problem of the Canadian squadrons in France by any such means. He also indicated that he had been unperturbed about the possible outcome of the debate, stating that if the Opposition had forced an election, his party would have been returned not with 129 seats, but 200-odd seats.
The Secretary of Defense took the opportunity Pearson offered him briefly to explain the plans for the Multilateral Force, but the Prime Minister showed no more enthusiasm for it than he had during the discussion at Hyannis Port.
There was also some discussion about the United Nations and the voting problem created by the enlarged membership and the Prime Minister was very interested in the explanation which the Secretary gave to him showing that weighted voting would offer no panacea.
- Source: Department of State, Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330. Confidential. Drafted by Butterworth and approved in S on May 26. Rusk and McNamara were in Ottawa for the NATO Ministerial Meeting May 22–24.↩
- A memorandum of this conversation, US/MC/9, is ibid., Conference Files: Lot 66 D 110, CF 2263. Memoranda of Rusk’s conversation with Martin on May 21 covering the international situation, Laos, and a nuclear test ban, are ibid.↩