416. Editorial Note
During a visit to the Soviet Union to consult on matters relating to the development of natural resources, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall met with Premier Khrushchev on September 6, 1962, at Khrushchevʼs villa at Petsunda, Georgia. The conversation ranged over Udallʼs impressions of his visit and included an important discussion of the Berlin question, in which Khrushchev offered an assurance to President Kennedy that he would do nothing to precipitate a crisis over Berlin before the November Congressional elections in the United States. According to Udallʼs transcript the conversation also dealt in part with Cuba:
“U: The President is the commander of the military in our country, just as you are in the Soviet Union.
“K: It is true that irresponsible actions occasionally take place. Itʼs up to me to make the decision on going to war, but fools in airplanes do exist, I realize. Now as to Cuba—here is an area that could really lead to some unexpected consequences. I have been reading what some irresponsible Senators have been saying on this. A lot of people are making a big fuss because we are giving aid to Cuba. But you are giving aid to Japan. Just recently I was reading that you have placed atomic warheads on Japanese territory, and surely this is not something the Japanese need. So when Castro comes to us for aid, we give him what he needs for defense. He hasnʼt much modern military equipment, so he asked us to supply some. But only for defense. However, if you attack Cuba, that would create an entirely different situation. And it is unthinkable, of course, that a tiny nation like Cuba would ever attack the United States.
[Page 1048]“U: The responsible people prevail in our country unless intolerable provocations occur.
“K: You have surrounded us with military bases. If you attack Cuba, then we will attack one of the countries next to us where you have placed your bases.
“U: The President has made his position on Cuba clear. A few people in Congress may call for an invasion, but the President makes the policy.
“K: These Congressmen do not see with their eyes, but with their asses. All they can see is whatʼs behind them. Yesterdayʼs events are not todayʼs realities. I remember Gorky recounting in his memoirs how he had a conversation with Tolstoy. Tolstoy asked him how he got along with women, and then ventured his own opinion. ‘Men are poorly designed. When theyʼre young, they can satisfy their sexual desires. But as they grow old, the ability to reap this satisfaction disappears. The desires, however, do not.ʼ So it is with your Congressmen. They do not have power, but they still have the same old desires.
“U: Nevertheless, most Congressmen are responsible. I used to be a Congressman myself. But there are only a few who are irresponsible.
“K: Iʼm speaking of the latter. America is no longer the strongest nation in the world. The President knows and understands this. Relations between countries must be built on political and economic realities. If your Congressmen want to attack Cuba, they are like Tolstoyʼs aging man. I have stated that we could support Cuba even from our own territory. So this shows that some of your Congressmen are stronger in their asses than their heads.
“U: The irresponsible people have a right to speak out but they do not control policy. For example, one of the noisiest Senators is Goldwater from my own state of Arizona. Heʼs a Republican, while Iʼm a Democrat. He doesnʼt understand modern times. But the President does, and he makes our policies on foreign relations.” (Department of State, Presidential Correspondence: Lot 77 D 163)
Udall summarized this conversation in telegram 616 from Moscow, September 7, printed in Foreign Relations, 1961–1963, volume V.