Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume X, Cuba, January 1961–September 1962

212. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Oslo, May 9, 1961, 2:45 p.m.

NATO MINISTERIAL MEETING

Oslo, May 8-10, 1961

PARTICIPANTS

• United States
  • The Secretary of State
  • Mr. Kohler
  • Mr. Steeves
  • Mr. Magill
• Canada
  • The Honorable Howard C. Green, Canadian Secretary of State for External Affairs
  • Mr. G. Ignatieff, Assistant Under Secretary for External Affairs
  • Mr. R. Campbell
  • Mr. J.J. McCardle

SUBJECT

• Cuba

The Secretary said the U.S. had taken the initiative three times recently in attempting negotiations with Cuba, but had been rebuffed each time. He asserted that the U.S. nevertheless remained prepared to negotiate with Cuba on any issue except that of Cubaʼs Sino-Soviet ties, which was not negotiable from the U.S. viewpoint. He cited as one aspect of these ties that there were over 2,000 Soviet and Chinese Communist technicians in Cuba. The Secretary said that the U.S. must work for the downfall of the Castro regime so long as this situation obtains. This objective is in line with traditional U.S. policy based on the Monroe Doctrine and it is also inter-American policy. The U.S. takes this policy very seriously.

Mr. Green observed that last summer Canada had explored the possibility of joining with Mexico and Brazil in an effort to resolve the Cuban problem, but that this had not succeeded. He had the impression that the U.S. did not want outside intervention. The Secretary said that twice last year the U.S. had tried to have the Cuban problem taken up in the Peace Committee of the OAS but that Cuba had spurned these efforts. He expressed the hope that Canada would inform the U.S. if it saw any indications of a possibility of severing Cubaʼs Sino-Soviet ties. Mr. Green said that Canada was not close enough to the Cuban situation to be likely to know of such possibilities if they should develop.

The Secretary emphasized that the U.S. concern regarding Cuba did not arise from Cuban expropriation of U.S. properties. Mr. Green said that if the U.S. intervened directly in Cuba, it would stir up a hornetʼs nest in Latin America and the U.N. and would not settle the problem in the long run. He said that last yearʼs rumors of U.S. intervention had greatly disturbed the Canadians despite the fact that they were more removed from the problem. The Secretary said he could understand some differences in attitude between the U.S. and Canada on Cuba. Canada was more remote geographically, and the U.S. lay between Canada and Cuba. Furthermore, Canada did not have the tradition of the Monroe Doctrine. Mr. Green said that the Canadian Government was giving serious consideration to the possibility of joining the OAS. However, he had the impression that drastic actions seem to push the Cubans further into the arms of the Communists.

The Secretary said that by January 20 of this year the course had already been set by the U.S. in its handling of the Cuban situation. Mr. Green asked whether U.S. possession of Guantanamo Base strengthened the U.S. position. The Secretary said that if the Cubans attacked Guantanamo Base, supported aggression against other countries in the area, or accepted Soviet missile bases, the U.S. would be faced with a very difficult decision regarding counter action. Mr. Green surmised that such Cuban action would provide the U.S. with a basis for direct intervention. The Secretary said he could not prejudge U.S. action in such circumstances, but it was quite clear that the U.S. could not tolerate having the Soviets operating through a Cuban “cut-out.” Mr. Green said he thought the U.S. had been right in deciding not to use its armed forces against Castro.

Mr. Green said if there was any way in which the U.S. thought Canada might be able to help, he hoped that the U.S. would let Canada know. The Secretary suggested that one possibility for such help might be the need for arranging a rescue service through the International Red Cross. He thought Canada might be able to help with the Europeans in working this out.

Mr. Green asked what in the Secretaryʼs view would be a liquidation of Cubaʼs ties with the Sino-Soviet Bloc. The Secretary said Cuba would have to send the Communist technicians home and realign itself with the OAS. Mr. Green said that it was very important that the U.S. should move with the Latin American countries on Cuba. The Secretary observed that covert Latin American support was much stronger than the overt posture because of Communist penetration in many Latin American countries. The Governments of these countries were worried and inhibited by the attitudes of their own people. The U.S. has been moving with the Latin American states although the latter have not been able to say so publicly.

0. Source: Department of State, Secretaryʼs Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330. Confidential. Drafted by R. N. Magill and approved in S on May 13. The conversation took place at the U.S. Delegation Office.