Office of the Historian

302. Memorandum of Telephone Conversation Between the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs (Harriman) and the President’s Deputy Special Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kaysen)0

Washington, June 28, 1963, 2:40 p.m.

H called K.

H—I think we better call it off. And then there is another message here which says in light of the wide range of agreement I was just as glad not to go but the idea that they had a great idea about this. If you want to do this, send Foster over. You and I stay home. I put it to the Secy—I said is this a propaganda stunt, in which case I’ll go along with it, or do you want to reach some kind of an agreement. And the strange thing is that John McCone and particularly Bob McNamara is keen to have us explore the widest range of this. But if we are to … then the hell with it.

K—I am going to call Mac’s attention to these two cables1 and give him the flavor of our reaction.2

H—The point is that so far we haven’t yet hit the right chord. To go over the same arguments—all they are doing is going over the same arguments.

K—I couldn’t agree with you more. I wanted to flag it for Mac so he can manage the situation on Sunday.

H … I am not worried about the President’s own view. I think it would be very important if you and I and perhaps Mac could have a private talk with the President.

K—Mac has this very much in mind.

H—Without the entire group, without chaperones. I am very disciplined. I want to know what the objective is and I will conform completely. I really ought to find out what he would like to try to achieve. Certainly we are not going to get anywhere on any of the points of this conversation in this telegram.

K—Did you read the record of Foster and Kuznetsov?3 An opportunity was present twice, in my judgment.

H—I will get Adrian4 to pick it out.

  1. Source: Library of Congress, Manuscript Division, Harriman Papers, Box 581, June-July 1963 Telephone Conversations. No classification marking. The source text bears the typed note: “No Distribution Except to Sullivan.” Sullivan was Harriman’s Special Assistant.↩
  2. Apparently Secto 15 and Secto 19; see Document 300 and footnote 3 thereto.↩
  3. See Document 303.↩
  4. Not further identified.↩
  5. Adrian Fisher.↩