Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume VII, Arms Control and Disarmament

292. Memorandum of Telephone Conversation Between Secretary of State Rusk and the Deputy Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency (Fisher)⁰

Washington, June 8, 1963, 2:06 p.m.

TELEPHONE CALL TO MR. FISHER

F replied he had seen the Pres’ American U speech¹ and thinks it is quite good. The decision with punch line is reasonably daring. Also replied he does not think there will be too much of a reaction. Sec said it is only practical way to bring about now what 32 Senators said they were in favor of.² F said on the whole he thinks it is a good thing. Sec asked about French aspect of this. F does not think their conducting tests in the atmosphere will make this much difference. If we and the Soviets are serious, it won’t. Otherwise he thinks they have made up their mind to be argumentative etc. F would not have thought of this as an area of major pronouncement—but Sec said it is all right. Sec wondered if he should telephone Senate leaders before he makes it. F’s feeling has been he is a little bit gunshy about going up to them and have them say no. F suggested Sec tell Bundy or Kaysen we assume this has been thought of. Sec said he has not found a word given the policy. F said Kaysen had a couple of little things. Mentioned something on page 12. F does not disagree with policy and given it this is a fairly good articulation of it. The fact Sorensen can do this without not knowing much about it surprises him. Sec said it is very good.³ F mentioned something on page 2. F also unsuccessfully passed on that 32 Senators did not go for outer space and Pres has made up his mind to say they did more than they did and see if they will argue with him. Sec said here he is only talking about in the atmosphere. F said not in point 2. Discussed this and F said while his personal relations with Dodd are good, they aren’t on this and he would not be able to find out what is in his mind. Sec thought he should try to get Humphrey⁴ to see what is on their mind on this.⁵

0. Source: Department of State, Rusk Files: Lot 72 D 192, Telephone Conversations. No classification marking. Drafted by Phyllis D. Bernau.
1. See footnotes 2 and 3, Document 290.
2. On May 27, 32 Senators, including Thomas Dodd of Connecticut and Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota, offered a resolution calling for the United States to offer to the Soviet Union an accord to ban nuclear tests in the atmosphere and under water. If the Soviets rejected the accord, the United States would refrain from testing in these environments as long as the Soviets did. The letter was published in The New York Times, May 28, 1963.
3. Rusk called Sorensen on June 10, following delivery of the speech, “to offer S his warm congratulations on the Pres’ speech. If we were short on suggestions, it was because the first draft was so good.” (Department of State, Rusk Files: Lot 72 D 192, Telephone Conversations)
4. A postscript notes that Rusk intended to call Humphrey that evening. No record of this call has been found.
5. On June 9, Rusk and Kaysen discussed other aspects of the speech, principally who might go to Moscow for the test ban talks. (Memorandum of telephone conversation; Department of State, Rusk Files: Lot 72 D 192, Telephone Conversations) See the Supplement.