215. Telegram From the Embassy in the Soviet Union to the Department of State0
229. Khrushchev conversation—miscellaneous. Speaking of his northern trip, K said he had spent much time inspecting fishing industry and remarked they were going to expand their fishing fleet. He said there were lots of fish near our shores and he laughingly remarked that our [Page 467] press devoted lots of attention to their trawlers which were really there for fish. In this connection he said they were considering basing 4 or 5 boats on Cuba if Castro agreed since there were good fishing grounds in this area.
K referred with admiration to our Telstar satellite. In this connection I said he had done much to bring Soviet Union into modern world and Telstar showed how necessary this was. I said impossible for any people to live in isolation in world of today. I therefore thought support both sides had given exchange program very wise. I said there were still many areas of misunderstanding between us and this could only be dispelled by greater knowledge through closer contact. Many of our problems were difficult enough to resolve, but they became more difficult when each side started with different appraisal of facts, and I gave some illustrations of this.
K said in South Vietnam we had stumbled into bog and would be mired down there for long time. People were against Diem who was bad man. He cited article by Chester Bowles which he alleged indicated we were supporting unpopular govt and said he agreed with much of article.1 I said we were convinced it was not South Vietnamese who were making trouble but agents from North Vietnam and that if this intervention stopped and Vietnamese wanted change their govt I felt sure we would not stop them. When K said he had not sent agents in, I said I had not accused him of this but said they came from North Vietnam. He also alleged that our troops had gone into Thailand to bolster up unpopular regime there. He also referred to Iran as country where people would eventually assert themselves. He said Sov Govt was behaving correctly and cited case of Afghanistan. He said their engineers and other personnel had been given strict instructions not even to mention word communism and their relations with that country were excellent. He said King of Afghanistan would pay him visit while he was on holiday.
K said in what was by implication frank admission that it was customary Soviet practice, that they had sent no agitators or agents to US because they knew this waste of time and our govt was secure. He said for same reason Allen Dulles had not sent subversive agents to Soviet Union.
K expressed great satisfaction at settlement Laos problem and said both he and President Kennedy had honestly carried out their promises.
He said they had reestablished good relations with Yugoslavia although they still had disagreements, but history would decide which of two correct. He also used this expression in arguing for coexistence with [Page 468] US. I said he should not deceive himself that we did not have confidence in our system and we were quite prepared to leave verdict to history. I said Communist system had certain advantages but overall we thought ours better. I said important difference between us however was we thought each country should have its own system and this might be any combination of either their or our economic, political or social systems. I said I was aware that dogmatism and revisionism had special meaning in Communist world but said any system which did not adapt itself to changes in world could not survive.
K referred to Congo and said this also was bog and it would take many years for African countries to evolve into real nations.
When I expressed satisfaction at Kohler appointment as my successor and referred to his close relationship with President K said he had met Kohler but did not know him well enough to express any opinion. He would welcome him and endeavor to establish good relations.2
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, 761.13/7-2662. Secret; Limit Distribution.↩
- Presumably Khrushchev is referring to Bowlesʼ address before the National Conference on Economic and Social Development, July 19, which was printed in Department of State Bulletin, August 6, 1962, pp. 207-213.↩
- In a final telegram reporting on the conversation, Thompson added that the Chairman asked him to speak to the President about U.S. harassment of Soviet ships. Thompson indicated that he believed the United States was paying too high a price for whatever value it gained from identifying Soviet vessels and pointed out that this was the only time that Khrushchev had raised the issue “with any heart.” (Telegram 230 from Moscow, July 26; Department of State, Central Files, 761.5411/7-2662)↩