Office of the Historian

232. Notes of a Meeting, Department of State1

Washington, November 9, 1961, 4:36 p.m.

Sec. State read p. 12 aloud. Argument on “extremely.” Rusk questioned “sharply against,” par. 3 & 4.

I raised question of what is the obj.

Secy. Def. would put his first par. 1st p. 8.

I objected to parenthetical remarks. I stated that we must have a clear statement of the milt objective before we rec[ommend] a force to accomplish it.

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Sec. State insisted on discussing troop deployment rather than face real issue of troops.

Rostow believes it would be easier to get SEATO into the 17th area rather than in the plateau area.

Rusk leans strongly toward introducing administrators, MAAG, etc.—it does not commit US as does combat forces. Reluctant to put in US forces until Diem makes a 100% effort in his area. Cited US pulling out students, etc., while VN students stay in school. What domestic case can be made for such a step?

Harriman—pare 5 line 8—suggests we have a conference before we put forces in-would confront …3

Rostow—Desai says that if you try to deal with ICC before troops you have no bargaining power.

Harriman believes we should have a showdown with plan ready. If you put in troops there is no real negotiation possible with Russians.

Nitze believes introduction of US forces will result in stepping up infiltration.

Sec. State-to Harriman: Will putting US forces in VN blow open Laotian situation?

Harriman—Yes. World does not consider that VC are supported from North-they believe it is Diem’s fault. Time schedule-release Jorden report. Talks with USSR within a few days.

Rusk-national interest obj. What we should do. Scenario-diplomatic moves.

  1. Source: National Defense University, Lemnitzer Papers, L-216-71. Secret. Handwritten by Lemnitzer. According to the source text, the following people were present at the meeting: Rusk, McNamara, Gilpatric, Nitze, Lemnitzer, William Bundy, Harriman, Ball, U. Alexis Johnson, Taylor, and Rostow. According to Rusk’s Appointment Book, he met at 4:36 p.m. on November 9 to discuss Viet-Nam with Ball, McNamara, Gilpatric, Lemnitzer, Rostow, Nitze, Taylor, William Bundy, and U. Alexis Johnson. Harriman joined the meeting at 5:06 p.m. The next appointment shown was a 6:41 p.m. meeting with McNamara alone. (Johnson Library, Rusk Appointment Books)↩
  2. Reference is apparently to the draft paper described in footnote 1, Document 228.↩
  3. Ellipsis in the source text.↩