576. Record of Telephone Conversations Between Herter and Lodge and Lyndon Johnson1
6:10 p.m.
Lodge telephoned that the resolution in the Disarmament Commission requests the Russians to go back to the 10-nation group. Lodge said he didn’t think this would get as many votes as a resolution to negotiate in the Disarmament Commission. The Secretary asked if he had reference to negotiating with a group of 82 and Lodge said that was what the Disarmament Commission was made up of and that he didn’t think we had to be afraid of this at all. The Secretary said it was impossible to negotiate in such a large body and Lodge insisted that if it could be done with 10 it could be done with 82. Actually, he said, it would boil down to the Russians and us; that we could bring the British and French in for private talks. Lodge said this was all academic because they would refuse. He said he was afraid we wouldn’t get a strong vote to go back to the 10-nation group. Lodge said he had suggested we go into the Disarmament Commission with the proposal on disarmament which he thinks would be best of all. The Secretary asked if he hadn’t received what Eaton had tabled. Lodge said they had been told that this wasn’t sufficiently far along. The Sec. said the draft letter to Hammarskjold would have our proposal as an attachment asking that it be circulated. He said that Eaton didn’t have time to clear the proposal with our allies. Lodge said that the meeting would be on July 6; that would be time to clear it with our allies. The Secretary said it would still be in the process of clearance. Lodge said the best thing to do would be to start negotiating on disarmament in the Commission; the next best was to urge the Russians to come into the Commission. The worst thing would be to come back into the 10-nation group. The Secretary said to try to do it in the 82-nation was just as bad; that this was a terribly complicated and difficult thing. Lodge said he didn’t think the fact that there were 82 added anything to the complexity of the situation. It meant that we, the Russians, the British and French would sit down in private. The Secretary mentioned wording it in such a way as to ask the Russians to return or in such form as the Disarmament Commission would select. Lodge said then all the neutrals would get in, i.e, Communist China. The Sec. said he wouldn’t mind Communist China being in and Lodge said not in an election year. The Sec. said he could not see it being done in the 82-nation group. Lodge suggested the [Typeset Page 2103] Secretary get in the disarmament experts and mull it over. Lodge said the point was to force the Russians to say yes or no to negotiations now. Lodge said he planned to meet with our allies tomorrow to sign the letter and the Sec. asked if they were ready to sign. Lodge said he didn’t think they were. The Sec. said the British wanted time to think it over. Lodge asked the Secretary to think it over and to let him know.
[Facsimile Page 2]6:43 p.m.
Telephoned Lyndon Johnson that he was worried about the State Department Appropriations Bill. The Secretary said that as Mr. Macomber had told him, we would do our best on the money going into the University. Sec said he hoped that as far as salaries and expenses were concerned the Senator would give us a good break. Senator Johnson said he would certainly be considerate. He realized the burden the Secretary carried and that he would try to be as understanding as if their positions were reversed. He said he would get on it in the morning. The Secretary expressed his appreciation.
- Source: Tactics for U.N. resolution on resuming disarmament talks; State Department appropriations bill. No classification marking. 2 pp. Eisenhower Library, Herter Papers, Phone Calls and Miscellaneous Memos.↩