Office of the Historian

323. Memorandum of Conversation0

SecDel/MC/121
New York, September 27, 1960, 2:45-3:45 p.m.

SECRETARY’S DELEGATION TO THE FIFTEENTH SESSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY

New York, September 19–24, 1960

PARTICIPANTS

  • U.S.
    • The President
    • Secretary Herter
    • Gen. Goodpaster
    • T.C. Achilles
  • Canada
    • Prime Minister John G. Diefenbaker
    • Mr. Howard Green, Secretary of State for External Affairs
    • Mr. H.B. Robinson, Prime Minister’s Private Secretary

SUBJECT

  • Interceptors and CL–44 Transports

At the conclusion of a discussion concerning UN matters,1 the Prime Minister said that although substantial agreement had been reached some months ago, the Canadian Government now found itself in an impossible position on this matter.2 Communist propaganda had caused an upsurge of concern over US domination of Canada and this had been growing dangerously in the last three months. Accordingly, the Canadian Government had now suggested the alternative of taking over part of the Pine Tree Line. The cost to Canada of this over the next 9–10 years would be some $150 million. Canada would acquire and equip 66 F–101’s. Instead of paying the US $115 million for the planes and additional sums for spare parts, it would make its contribution by paying up to $150 million for maintaining part of the Pine Tree Line. [Page 813] This would enable them to say that Canada was preserving its sovereignty over that area and at the same time maintaining an interceptor force to meet potential bombers. Two years ago all available information was that bombers were becoming obsolete but this was apparently now less certain. The President said that he is still generally of that opinion although we cannot of course be sure that the Soviets might not develop something which would extend the useful life of the bomber. Altitude and speed were important, but beyond the B–52 we would have to develop a much advanced aircraft, in effect entering a new world of aviation. He doubted whether this would occur.

The President said he had not previously heard of this new alternative but he would give it his personal attention and hoped that it could be resolved quickly. The Secretary said that the proposal had just been made but it was interesting and was being studied in Washington.

The President remarked that the U.S. had never tried to dominate anyone but that our bases caused us problems and in many areas opened us to blackmail. The Prime Minister said that the President had always been completely fair in dealing with him. The Canadian Government had been all ready to go on the CL–44’s but the reaction had been terrific and the alternative now proposed would be of the greatest advantage to him. It would cost Canada $34 million more but it would cost the U.S. nothing more.

The President observed that he had had much experience in working with Allies and that the essential ingredient was to have faith in each other. The spirit of nationalism sometimes got out of bounds and would be used to attack St. Peter himself, but it was the maintenance of good faith which counted. During the war he and Churchill had had many fights but never lost their faith in or friendship for each other. The Prime Minister heartily agreed and asked whether the President had yet seen Lord Ismay’s book.3 The President had not seen it but had the greatest admiration for Ismay.

In leaving, the Prime Minister quoted Churchill’s remark apropos of Montgomery’s book to the effect that “soldiers sell their lives dearly”.

  1. Source: Eisenhower Library, Whitman File, International File. Top Secret; Eyes Only. Drafted by Counselor of the Department of State Theodore C. Achilles. The meeting was held at the Waldorf Towers. President Eisenhower was in New York to address the U.N. General Assembly.↩
  2. Similar memoranda of the President’s conversation with Diefenbaker on U.N. matters, dated September 28 (SecDel/MC/120) and 30, are in the Eisenhower Library, White House Office, Project Clean Up, Canada. A memorandum of their brief conversation on “Food for Peace” (SecDel/MC/65) is in Department of State, President’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 66 D 149.↩
  3. In July the Department of Defense had offered to exchange 66 U.S. interceptors for Canadian CL–44s. Canada countered with a triangular proposal by which the United States would furnish the interceptors and purchase $150 million worth of CL–44s while Canada would assume a substantial share of the U.S. expenses on the Pinetree radar line.↩
  4. Reference is to The Memoirs of General the Lord Ismay (London, 1960).↩