Foreign Relations of the United States, 1977–1980, Volume XII, Afghanistan

301. Memorandum of Conversation¹

Tokyo, July 10, 1980, 9:15–10:15 a.m.

SUBJECT

• Memorandum of Conversation between President Carter and Premier Hua Guofeng of the Peoples’ Republic of China—Tokyo, Japan, 9:15–10:15 a.m. July 10

PARTICIPANTS

• PRC

  • Premier Hua Guofeng
  • Deputy Foreign Minister Han Nianlong
  • Minister Counselor (Deputy Chief of Mission of the PRC Embassy in Japan) Wang Xiaoyun
  • Deputy Director of Asian Affairs of the Foreign Ministry Xiao Xiangchuan
  • Sun Ping: Notetaker
  • Chun Hui: Interpreter Director of Secretariat of Foreign Ministry

• U.S.

  • President Jimmy Carter
  • Secretary of State Edmund Muskie
  • Zbigniew Brzezinski, Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
  • Michael Mansfield, U.S. Ambassador to Japan
  • Michael Armacost, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Bureau for East Asia and Pacific Affairs
  • Donald Gregg, National Security Council Staff Member
  • Vivian Chang (interpreter)

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to Afghanistan.]

Turning to Afghanistan, the President said that some limited assistance was being given to the Afghan freedom fighters who are struggling for their independence against the Soviet invaders. The President noted that much of the Afghan army has defected to the freedom fighters, taking their weapons with them. The President said that the U.S. considers it important to give assistance to those who struggle for their freedom. The President noted that Pakistan, even though under Soviet pressure, was participating to some degree in efforts to support the Afghan freedom fighters. The President said that these actions are very sensitive, and that it is difficult to discuss them in complete candor. He also noted that the U.S. is willing to exchange intelligence with the PRC on the situation in Afghanistan, and that we have benefitted from some information received from the Chinese side.

Dr. Brzezinski said that the U.S. has not been indifferent or passive in responding to the difficult situation in which the Afghan freedom fighters have found themselves. Dr. Brzezinski noted that the freedom fighters have one need which the U.S. has not been able to satisfy. This is a need for SA–7 ground-to-air missiles, which would be highly effective in reducing the efficacy of the Soviet helicopter gun-ships. Dr. Brzezinski said that he had heard that the PRC either has or is producing the SA–7 missile, and that if such weapons could be given to the freedom fighters, an important contribution would have been made to their resistance.

President Carter said that we can deliver such weapons “indirectly but effectively” to the freedom fighters. The President noted that we had been careful not to send any weapons of U.S. origin into Afghanistan, as the Soviets would use such weapons for propaganda purposes.

Premier Hua said that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the attack on Kampuchea had not happened by chance. Hua described the attack on Afghanistan as a premeditated plan by the Soviets, designed to give them control of the country. Hua then sketched the events in Afghanistan that led up to the Soviet attack. He noted that three Afghan presidents had been murdered in a short time. He said that this was a series of events almost without parallel, and that the murders had been the direct result of Soviet intervention. Hua said that the attack into Afghanistan was part of a thrust to the South by the Soviets, and that if they succeed in controlling Afghanistan, they will then move on toward the Indian Ocean and the oil-producing regions of the Middle East. Hua noted that the American CIA has predicted that Soviet oil production will decline, starting about 1985, and that the Soviets feel the need to seize oil producing regions. Hua commented that even if the Soviet oil production were not to decline, they would still undertake the same sort of strategic effort.

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to Afghanistan.]

Returning to the subject of Pakistan, Hua said that he had met General Zia recently, and that Zia said he hoped for more aid from the U.S. Hua paid tribute to the two Islamic conferences, which he said had been helpful. He cited the three-man committee set up by the Islamic Conference as performing good work. Hua said that the Soviets have been putting pressure on Pakistan, even threatening it with “another dismemberment.” Hua praised Pakistan’s courage in standing up to the Soviet pressure. President Carter said that he agreed the Pakistanis have been courageous.

Referring to Iran, Hua said that the PRC has stated its opposition to the holding of the hostages. He said that he believes the Soviet attack into Afghanistan also threatens Iran. He noted that the Iranians have called upon the Soviets to withdraw from Afghanistan, and that the Iranians have said they will support the Afghan rebels if the Soviets do not pull out. Hua noted that the Iranians are keeping their word on this matter. Iran has refused to recognize the Soviet puppet regime in Kabul, and at the recent Islamic conference, the Iranians accepted six Afghan rebel groups as part of their own delegation. President Carter noted that the Iranians have also told the Soviets to reduce their presence in Iran, and that some of the 2,000 Soviet “advisors” will have to move out.

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to Afghanistan and remarks by Carter and Hua agreeing to exchange visits in the future.]

1. Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Brzezinski Material, Subject File, Box 38, Memcons: President: 7/80. Secret. The Chinese and U.S. delegations were in Japan to attend the memorial service for Japanese Prime Minister Masayoshi Ohira, July 9–10. For the full text of the memorandum of conversation, see Foreign Relations, 1977–1980, vol. XIII, China, Document 313.