388. Memorandum of Conversation, Washington, September 12, 1974, 4 p.m.1 2
MEMORANDUM
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION:
PARTICIPANTS: Anand Panyarachun, Ambassador of Thailand
Henry A.
Kissinger, Secretary of State
Arthur Hummel, Deputy Assistant
Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs
W.R. Smyser,
Senior Staff Member, NSC
DATE, TIME PLACE: September 12, 1974; 4:00 p.m.
The Secretary’s
Office, State Department
SUBJECT: U.S.-Thai Relations
Kissinger: Your Foreign Minister is coming to New York, I understand.
Panyarachun: Yes.
Kissinger: I hope to see him there.
Hummel: Anand will also be there. He has a double position, as Ambassador here and as Ambassador at the UN.
Kissinger: If more people did that, there would be more serious work done at the UN.
Panyarachun: Some Ambassadors welcome the chance to get away from Washington to go to the UN. I do not. I find my work in Washington very important.
Hummel: Ambassador Panyarachun will again be Chairman of the group that will coordinate and make decisions on our tactics for the Cambodian representation questions.
Kissinger: What are the chances?
Panyarachun: We are changing our tactics. Last year we were able to postpone it. Since that will not work again, we are asking this year for a fact-finding committee to go to Cambodia.
Under that arrangement, the present government would stay at the UN is that correct?
[Page 2]Panyarachun: That depends on the military situation. Will they hold on?
Kissinger: Certainly until the vote. I do not expect a collapse in Cambodia. If our aid holds up, the stalemate will continue.
Panyarachun: Aid is the big question.
Kissinger: This morning we had a meeting with the Congressional leadership. We will try for a continuing resolution rather than to have a vote on aid before the election. That will give us the same money as last year.
Panyarachun: My government has instructed me to give full cooperation New York on this matter.
Kissinger: Good.
Hummel: Anand called on Mr. Habib this morning. They exchanged views very frankly.
Kissinger: What came out?
Panyarachun: I gave my personal views, different in some ways from my government.
Hummel: We also gave some personal judgments.
Kissinger: What is your view?
Panyarachun: We think that the relationship needs a new basis. You have cooperated with the military faction. This was understandable since the military ran the government. Now that image needs to be rectified. There are some irritants in the relationship that need to be removed.
Kissinger: Like what?
Panyarachun: Your military presence. Not the military presence itself, but the number and the way they came in. It gave the impression that Thailand is not master in its own house. We need to adjust to the new [Page 3] realities of the situation. There is a constitutional process now going on, with elections to be held next year and a new government to come into power. We do not want to push the United States out of the area, at least not completely or immediately. But we want to plan ahead together.
Kissinger: What do you mean?
Panyarachun: Each time you want to withdraw a few thousand men from Thailand, you tell us and we agree. It does not seem as though we have a full discussion. People know this.
Kissinger: I agree. We should have a full discussion. If you want us to stay, you should let us know, or the reverse.
Panyarachun: Right now, my government does not want you to leave. You do not want to leave. So we agree.
But the media and the academicians want to know what is going to happen. They think we should agree on a five-year plan.
Kissinger: Is that what you want? I do not always respect academicians’ views.
Panyarachun: The role they will play in Thailand will be quite important.
The trouble in Thailand is that we have not thought it through ourselves. I am not speaking on instructions now. I am giving you my personal views of what I think we need to do.
Kissinger: Why can we not have a discussion?
Hummel: We did last year. It was good. We find difficulties in deciding on a terminal date because Thailand now has only a caretaker government. The new government might cut the period in half just as a matter of principle.
Panyarachun: Most Thai agree on gradual withdrawal, but my people worry that you will leave completely.
Kissinger: When will there be a government?
Hummel: Elections are planned for January.
[Page 4]Panyarachun: We should have a new government in March or April. I want you to assure us that we agree on gradual withdrawal. But no terminal date.
Kissinger: You can tell them that.
Panyarachun: Even better, have your Ambassador tell us. I think it makes more impact in Bangkok if it comes directly from your government. Have him say that you will withdraw gradually, but that you want to stay at this or that base.
Kissinger: That we will do.
What other problems do we have?
Panyarachun: We have no other problems. That is our problem.
Hummel: Many things that Thailand wants from us are in the economic sphere where we cannot do much. They want fertilizer, which we cannot export, and steel scrap, which is also short. But we have had good and constructive dialogue in these areas even when we have not been able to help.
Panyarachun: We also have a problem on food. There is a world food shortage. Food surplus nations are both rich, like the U.S., or poor and dependent on food exports, like Thailand. When the rich food exporting countries sell their food or give it away in our markets, they take away our export chances at a time when our import costs, as for oil, are going up.
We cannot lower our prices. We have to get full prices for our commodities these days.
Kissinger: What are you asking? That we should not harass you or that we should not give it away?
Panyarachun: We want you to try not to undersell us or to cut our markets.
Kissinger: How? What do we do now?
Hummel: We notify other countries of our sales but we do not consult with them in advance.
Kissinger: Could somebody do a paper on whom we should consult and how we should do this? I would be interested.
[Page 5]Panyarachun: What is your assessment of the prospects for U.S. relations with the PRC?
Kissinger: I think they are on course. The main lines of policy continue. The only problem is the Chinese domestic situation.
Panyarachun: Do you think the PRC and North Vietnam will have differences in Southeast Asia?
Kissinger: Yes, I do.
Panyarachun: There may be detente around the world but, with North Vietnam, there is no detente in Southeast Asia.