201. Memorandum of Conversation, Washington, March 28, 1975.1 2
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Memorandum of Conversation
DATE: March 2, 1975
SUBJECT: US - Japan Relations
PARTICIPANTS:
- The Secretary
- Philip Habib, Assistant Secretary of State, East Asian and the Pacific
- Ambassador James Hodgson
- Rust M. Deming, LA/J (notetaker)
PLACE: The Secretary’s Office
Ambassador Hodgson: I have no really major problems to discuss.
The Secretary: I am generally uneasy because Miki and Miyazawa are playing it too cute. I don’t like it.
Ambassador Hodgson: On the outside this is true but not the inside. The Japanese have not handled the question of Miyazawa’s visit very skillfully, but it is a weak government and acts that way.
The Secretary: This gives me a chance to sea what Habib is doing about Japan.
Ambassador Hodgson: Mr. Habib is giving us benign neglect.
The Secretary: Habib is never benign (side conversation with Mr. Habib).
The Secretary: One thing is clear, with the GOJ we have to demonstrate strength. South Vietnam is gone, don’t you think so, Phil?
Mr. Habib: Within a year anyway.
The Secretary: We should resist failure beyond a certain point.
[Page 2]Ambassador Hodgson: The GOJ still sees us as the only game in town.
The Secretary: The GOJ should understand that it can’t send its Foreign Minister to the Soviet Union and five or six other countries without coming to the US. He can certainly well come here for 24 hours. I want Miyazawa to understand that we are not amused. The Japanese have to know that they have to cultivate the US as well as China.
Mr. Habib: Is the 15th (of April) all right for a meeting with Miyazawa?
The Secretary: I am not going to Latin America. Between the tenth and the fifteenth would probably be all right but not before the tenth. I want him to know that he will not be meeting a sap.
Ambassador Hodgson: Well, Miyazawa may be one.
The Secretary: I know, he thinks he knows how to handle Americans. I want him to know that we enjoyed good relations with Ohira —
Mr. Habib: and Kimura.
The Secretary: and Kimura, and I was disappointed that he couldn’t come here sooner after the President’s visit.
Ambassador Hodgson: Miyazawa is not just cute with Americans but is this way with others as well.
The Secretary: I want him to be a little more respectful toward our relationship. (To Ambassador Hodgson) Will you make this point clear to him or do I tall Yasukawa?
Ambassador Hodgson: I am newly motivated. I doubt that telling Yasukawa would do much good.
The Secretary: Why? I like Yasukawa better than his predecessor.
[Page 3]Mr. Habib: What about the timing of a Miki visit?
The Secretary: Probably August. The European Security Conference is in July.
Ambassador Hodgson: It shouldn’t be too close to the Emperor’s visit.
The Secretary: Well perhaps the end of July to mid August. Where will it be? Washington?
Ambassador Hodgson: Washington is the best place.
The Secretary: He too has to understand that he will not be dealing with creeps.
Mr. Habib: (To Ambassador Hodgson) Will Miki be speaking with authority?
Ambassador Hodgson: Miki’s government is gradually gaining strength and speaking with greater authority all the time.
The Secretary: Ohira told me that he wouldn’t last the year.
Ambassador Hodgson: His prospects have been improved. Things have gone quite well on a passive basis, although he has taken no major initiatives.
The Secretary: How is Tanaka doing?
Ambassador Hodgson: He is out to pasture, playing a lot of golf.
The Secretary: Is there any chance that he will make a comeback?
Ambassador Hodgson: Very doubtful.
The Secretary: How is Nakasone? What is he doing?
The Ambassador: He is very busy in his post as LDP party secretary, a job that he sought.
The Secretary: It is clear that he wants to dominate the party. Tanaka was party secretary for awhile. Is Fukuda finished?
[Page 4]Ambassador Hodgson: No, in fact if Miki falls he might be the next Prime Minister.
The Secretary: Not Ohira?
Mr. Habib: One or the other of them.
The Secretary: How are we going to handle the Emperor’s visit?
Ambassador Hodgson: The Emperor is very old and must be handled very protectively. The US public does not understand the mystique of the Emperor in Japan.
The Secretary: I didn’t understand it either until the President’s visit. The welcoming ceremony really made an impact didn’t it? We could have gone home right after it.
Ambassador Hodgson: It was a great success.
The Secretary: Does the visit still have after effects?
Ambassador Hodgson: Yes, it makes everything we do easier.
The Secretary: We can’t do that much for him.
Ambassador Hodgson: We can do enough.
The Secretary: How is the visit going to work? Will there be a substantive talk between the Emperor and the President?
Ambassador Hodgson: No, they might talk about culture, but above all the visit must be apolitical and divorced from substance. I believe that in planning the visit there are two overriding considerations: first, it must stay away from politics, and second, we must remember that the Emperor is frail and has limited energy.
[Page 5]Mr. Habib: What ever energy he has he will expend at Woods Hole and Scripps.
The Secretary: We will have to assign someone to go around with him. Who do you have in mind?
Mr. Habib: I haven’t had time to get involved in this. Perhaps U.A. Johnson. (to Mr. Deming) Who have you been thinking of?
Mr. Deming: We have been considering the Chief of Protocol.
The Secretary: No, the Chief of Protocol won’t do. We need a senior official.
Mr. Habib: If you could get him, John D. Rockefeller III might be appropriate. He is President of the Japan Society.
The Secretary: I could probably get him. We would need some senior official on the plane. Perhaps a Cabinet member. There are quite a few I’d like to get out of town for a week or two.
Mr. Habib: I recall that Henry Cabot Lodge accompanied Khrushchev when he came here.
The Secretary: How about Reischauer?
Mr. Habib: Please.
The Secretary: I love that guy. Every time I go anywhere he shows up and says something about me.
Ambassador Hodgson: He’s had a stroke and won’t be available in any case.
Ambassador Hodgson Vice Minister Togo says that the Chinese contend that you are the author of the “hegemony clause” in the Shanghai communiqué and wants to know if this is true.
The Secretary: Well, I am, or close enough to it.
[Page 6]Ambassador Hodgson: One of the greatest things for the US-Japan relationship in the last year was the Chou En-lai statement that the US-Japan bond of friendship is a great thing. I have one more thing and I’ll get out of here. I met with a group of senior Japanese businessmen shortly after your “sabre rattling” remarks about the Mid East. These businessmen all agreed that your strong talk on the Mid East was beneficial in terms of resolving the energy crisis. You will not see this attitude reflected in public remarks in Japan, but I want you to know that it is nonetheless present.
The Secretary: Of course.