156. Memorandum of Conversation1
PARTICIPANTS
- Sir Burke Trend, Secretary to the Cabinet
- Earl of Cromer, UK Ambassador
- Richard Sykes, Minister
- Charles Powell, First Secretary
- Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Helmut Sonnenfeldt, NSC Senior Staff
- William Hyland, NSC Senior Staff
- Peter W. Rodman, NSC Staff
[Omitted here is discussion of matters other than the European security conference or MBFR.]
Trend: On MBFR, are we back in your good books?
Kissinger: I haven’t heard any complaints lately.
Trend: You were so unhappy last time we met.2
Kissinger: You should be aware of one thing the Russians have proposed to us, on MBFR and CSCE. I am beginning to think I understand the Asian mind better than the European mind! Last year the Europeans were complaining we had to set a date for the opening of MBFR; now they are complaining we are trying to delay it.
As I told you, at Zavidovo Gromyko said it was academic because CSCE would be over by the end of September. Now they said if we [Page 481] agree to end CSCE this year, they will agree to fix a date for the MBFR opening even if it is prior to the closing of CSCE. This is the proposition they put to me.3 I understand Brandt is willing to end CSCE this year.
Sykes: Three to four months may be needed, on the commissions. But we really can not fix a date because we don’t know how it will go.
Kissinger: What would you say if we had a vague phrase in our Communiqué4 that we don’t oppose ending CSCE this year, or something like that?
Sykes: I don’t think you should do that; you will become a hostage.
Kissinger: We don’t care about CSCE. But would it be worth some small price in order to get MBFR?
Cromer: If it is just set as an objective, there is no price.
Kissinger: But CSCE now need not be over first. We have to have MBFR discussions going on when Congress reconvenes next January. You know this.
Sykes: Yes.
Cromer: The question is whether the Russians want a definitive date of before the end of this year.
Kissinger: A definitive date would be impossible to deliver.
Sykes: I don’t see how London would object to setting a date as an objective, if MBFR can begin before.
Kissinger: Could you get me an answer?
Sykes: Yes.
[Omitted here is discussion of matters other than the European security conference or MBFR.]
- Source: Ford Library, Kissinger–Scowcroft West Wing Office Files, Box 23, United Kingdom (5). Top Secret; Sensitive; Exclusively Eyes Only. The conversation took place in the United Kingdom Embassy Chancery.↩
- See Document 140.↩
- See Document 155.↩
- Apparent reference to the joint communiqué for Brezhnev’s upcoming visit; see Document 163.↩