Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume VII, Vietnam, July 1970–January 1972

238. Transcript of a Telephone Conversation Between Secretary of State Rogers and the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kissinger)¹

Washington, July 27, 1971, 7:45 p.m.

R: Hi, Henry.

K: When I called you I wanted to check whether you got a copy of my memo to the President.²

R: Yes, I read it. That was interesting.

K: There’s just one God-damn thing now.

R: It will be tough for them.

K: It will be murderous for them but equally tough for us. They will be lining up to become our enemies. But they are going through agonies. They don’t have the old fire any more. Now when I say next year you will be worse off, they listen and don’t argue. They don’t say you have lost the war which they used to say.

R: I think things are going well. My God, any time you talk to Americans they are so enthusiastic.

K: If they spring pressure on us again—domestic pressure ... I don’t think McGovern would offer more.

R: The important thing is we are going well. Our casualties last week were 13. This week they are very low.

K: I think it will turn into a non-issue very soon.

[Omitted here is discussion of China.]

K: Well, we have to do it once more. That will tell the story. There’s nothing left to talk about. After the election, it will be totally impossible. If they had any flexibility, they would accept what we have offered now. It might affect the election. If worse comes to worse whenever we are ready to pull them all out anyway, we can offer that for prisoners.

R: As far as the prisoners are concerned, I don’t know how we could handle it better.

K: They will concentrate on domestic affairs. Every problem we inherited in foreign policy will be solved or alleviated when we go into the election.

R: You know, I went to a reception over there, and people just came up and thanked me. They just volunteered to do it.

K: I haven’t been invited to talk at a college campus for a year and a half. That shows the heroism of our college administrators. But I must have had 50 invitations to speak now. And nothing is different. I ran into John Osborne today. He said why didn’t we know it. He also said if we had taken seriously what has been said for two years, we would have anticipated it.

[Omitted here is discussion unrelated to Vietnam.]

1. Source: National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, Kissinger Telephone Conversations, Box 10, Chronological File. No classification marking.
2. See footnote 1, Document 237.