Office of the Historian

125. Memorandum of Conversation1

Washington, April 1, 1964.

SUBJECT

  • Cambodia; Brazil; Zanzibar; Germany

PARTICIPANTS

  • US
    • Secretary of State Rusk
    • Raymond L. Garthoff, G/PM
  • UK
    • Ambassador Ormsby Gore

Cambodia

The Secretary noted that discussions on Cambodia had been overtaken by events. Sihanouk had just held a press conference,2 following shortly after a meeting with Ambassador Murray of the UK. Ambassador Ormsby Gore did not know anything about the background to the press conference statement. The Secretary continued that he was not inclined at the moment to attempt to nail down the situation with a joint message, although we were still considering the question. He suggested that among the possible reasons for Sihanoukʼs new line were: that Pei-ping and Hanoi may not have been as forthcoming as Sihanouk had expected; or Sihanouk may have felt he was giving too much opportunity to the Left in Cambodia; perhaps at last some of Sihanoukʼs more solid advisors were having some influence; or maybe Sihanouk was just bored.

The Secretary raised as speculation the question whether perhaps the Soviet Ambassador had spoken to Sihanouk. The Secretary [Page 294] remarked that he had briefed Ambassador Dobrynin a week ago on our policy toward Cambodia, and Dobrynin had agreed that Soviet policy also favored non-injection into Cambodian affairs.3 Dobrynin had seemed receptive to the Secretaryʼs point that the most important thing was to improve Cambodian relations with its neighbors. Perhaps the Soviets also were worried about Sihanouk coming too much under the influence of Peiping. Ambassador Ormsby Gore agreed that there was a probable Soviet interest in not having Cambodia become a satellite of China. The Secretary expressed his appreciation for Butlerʼs very helpful assistance in the situation.

It was agreed that the earlier draft message to Cambodia had been overtaken by events and would be dropped.

[Here follows discussion of Brazil, Zanzibar, and German reunification.]

  1. Source: Department of State, Central Files, POL CAMB. Secret. Drafted by Raymond L. Gartoff of G/PM and approved in S on April 15.↩
  2. Sihanouk announced that he would postpone any further action on a Geneva conference on Cambodia until after his visit to France, June 2–July 20.↩
  3. See Document 124.↩