154. Memorandum of Conversation1
SUBJECT
- President’s Conversation with Dr. Barzel
PARTICIPANTS
- The President
- Mr. Walt W. Rostow, Special Assistant to the President
- Mr. Francis M. Bator, Deputy Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Mr. Alfred Puhan, Director, Office of German Affairs, State Department
- Dr. Rainer Barzel, First Deputy Chairman, CDU/CSU Party, Germany
- Heinrich Knappstein, FRG Ambassador
- Mrs. Geithner, Interpreter, German Embassy
The President welcomed Dr. Barzel and hoped he would enjoy his stay here.
Barzel expressed his gratification to the President for seeing him a second time.2 He explained the purpose of his current trip, namely to give some lectures at the German Embassy today and in New York tomorrow. He said he had good meetings also with Jewish organizations.
The President referred to the observations Dr. Barzel intended to make on German reunification and said he had asked his staff to give them careful study. The President assured Barzel of his deep concern for the continued security of Europe and the success of the German people. On NATO, he wanted Dr. Barzel to know that we are concerned, but that we are not picking a fight with de Gaulle; we viewed de Gaulle’s actions more in sorrow than in anger. The President said he looked forward with great pleasure to seeing Chancellor Erhard again.
Dr. Barzel said he had received a telegram from Chancellor Erhard asking him to convey warm greetings to the President. The Chancellor said in his telegram that he too looked forward to the meeting with the President. The Chancellor wished especially to discuss with the President the offset problem and would be bringing with him some definite proposals of his own. The Chancellor also hoped that discussion of this subject could be kept out of the public domain.
The President said he agreed, that it was not right to try one’s case in the newspapers. He would do his part to see that such matters not leak and hoped that Chancellor Erhard would do the same.
Barzel referred to his comments regarding the Great Society, made when he saw the President in 1965. He noted with approval the trip of the FRG Minister of Health, Dr. Schwarzhaupt, to the United States and Secretary Udall to Germany. He said we should undertake more cooperative efforts like this.
The President expressed his appreciation for what the Germans had done in the domestic field, commenting on the Peace Corps and the achievements in the material resources field. He said he would like to see some of the fine German virtues transplanted to other countries. Their contribution to the shaping of our society had been great. The President referred in this connection to his own grandmother of German stock from whom he had learned the virtues of prudence and thrift. He said he didn’t want to tell Secretary McNamara this, but if he succeeded in balancing the federal budget, he would attribute this success to his own grandmother.
Barzel said the Germans recognized and understood fully the big job the United States was doing. Germans valued the U.S. keeping its [Page 374] commitments. Barzel said Berliners appreciated this in particular and would like to tell the President so personally in Berlin.
Mr. Rostow commented that Dr. Barzel had earlier attributed the growing moderation in Asia and Latin America to what we did in Viet-Nam.
The President said we thought the fruits of our efforts in Viet-Nam have been, are and will be reflected in the attitudes and conduct of other nations. He referred to what an ambassador of a powerful country had said to him recently after seeing Castro. The Cuban dictator saw no point in exhausting his treasury to undermine the rest of the Americas if the Russians run out on him as they did over missiles, while the Americans do what they did in the Dominican Republic. The President hoped other aggressors or would-be aggressors get the message. The President said we would have been guilty of deceit and hypocrisy if we had allowed North Viet-Nam to swallow South Viet-Nam and Thailand and Malaysia. We have served notice that we intend to stop aggression. We would like the Germans and Britons to take note of that and say so. We would like moral encouragement from our friends. The President said he thinks others ought to stand up to be counted.
Barzel said he was greatly impressed with the President’s remarks. He said Germans did want to make a greater contribution in the humanitarian field.
The President assured Barzel that we would keep our commitments. He stated that while he did not share the Chancellor’s and the general German view that, for the common defense, we need all the troops we now have in Germany, he appreciates the psychological factors involved in cutting back. He thought, moreover, that Erhard was tough enough to convince him to leave them there, but added that the Germans must reimburse us for our military foreign exchange expenditures. We have an agreement—we will keep it; the Chancellor has an agreement—we have no doubt he will keep it. And we should not waste too much time talking about it.
Barzel promised to carry the President’s view to Erhard and to help Erhard in Parliament so he could cope with this problem.
The President reiterated his great confidence in the Germans, in their understanding of financial matters and of U.S. problems. He asked Barzel to tell Erhard it was easier for him to get a boy back home than a dollar.
The President concluded by saying that he wanted Barzel to reassure Erhard that Erhard would always be kept well informed about any U.S. plans which touched German interests. The President said he would continue to share his confidence with Erhard as long as he represented the U.S. government.
- Source: Johnson Library, National Security File, Country File, Germany, vol. 10. Secret; Limit Distribution. Drafted by Puhan. The meeting was held at the White House.↩
- See Document 97.↩