Office of the Historian

320. Memorandum of Conversation0

Washington, May 2, 1961.

SUBJECT

  • The Situation in the Federation of Rhodesia & Nyasaland

PARTICIPANTS

  • The President
  • Dr. Hastings K. Banda, President, Malawi Congress Party of Nyasaland
  • Mr. Aleke Banda, Editor, Malawi News
  • Olcott H. Deming, Director, AFE

The President said he was delighted to meet Dr. Banda, a distinguished African leader whose role he knew would increase in importance. He said America took a great interest in African affairs, and visits such as Dr. Banda’s gave us the opportunity to increase our knowledge of the state of affairs in the various countries. Dr. Banda said he greatly appreciated the President’s interest and support. He then oulined briefly the historical background of the formation of the Federation, pointing out that the Rhodesian settlers at that time (1953) hoped that it would prevent states like Nyasaland from moving towards eventual independence. It was for this very reason that Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia wished to break up the Federation, though, once independent, they might move back into a voluntary association of their own.

Dr. Banda said that Iain MacLeod, the Colonial Secretary, was a very close friend of his and that the Colonial Office was working hard to bring early self-government to Nyasaland. Following elections in July the Africans would have a majority in the Legislative Council and then would work out with the British the next steps towards independence.

The President changed the subject to the Congo, and asked Dr. Banda his estimate of the situation there. Dr. Banda said that all friends of the Congo should work to bring Gizenga and Kasavubu together, that both of them were true nationalists and put the good of the country above selfish interests. By contrast, he said, Tshombe was a “Quisling” who thought only of his own interests, and that everyone in Africa knew he was a stooge of Belgian and other mining interests in Katanga. He had no [Page 509] standing as an African leader. Dr. Banda observed that he thought the UN role was essential in the Congo. The President said he was glad to hear this as he thought the smaller and newer countries must look to the UN for protection in such circumstances. Dr. Banda and the President agreed the big powers conflict must be kept out of such situations and the UN can be very effective in such situations.

Dr. Banda mentioned his long friendship and association with Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, and the President said he had had a most useful conversation with President Nkrumah on his recent visit to Washington. In response to a question, Dr. Banda said he thought Sekou Toure of Guinea was too much of a nationalist and “African individualist” ever to be “put in the pocket” of the East. The President said it was his observation that none of the new African states wanted to be in anyone’s pocket.

The President asked Dr. Banda if he would take a minute to be introduced to the members of his Cabinet, who were meeting next door. On concluding the call, the President assured Dr. Banda that he could count on his continuing personal interest in developments in Nyasaland and that we recognized his country’s needs for assistance in education and other fields. Dr. Banda said that next time he came he would bring a “shopping list” with him.

  1. Source: Department of State, President’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 66 D 149. Confidential. Drafted by Deming on May 3.↩