Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume VII, Arms Control and Disarmament

32. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, June 6, 1961, 4:30 p.m.

MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT AND THE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP

PRESENT

• The Vice President, Senators Mansfield, Humphrey, Russell, Fulbright, Dirksen, Saltonstall, Hickenlooper, Wiley
• The Speaker, Congressmen McCormack, Albert, Vinson, Morgan, Arends, Chiperfield, Hoeven, Byrnes (Wisconsin)¹

[Here follows discussion of the President’s visit to France and his talks with Chairman Khrushchev on Laos and the Middle East.]

On Sunday the discussion began with nuclear testing and Mr. Khrushchev had insisted on the Troika, stating that there was no such thing as a neutral person. Control in such circumstances was a form of espionage. There could be no serious control or inspection until after the decision for complete and general disarmament had been accepted. Mr. Khrushchev had urged that the President should agree to a merger of the test talks with disarmament, and the President’s conclusion was that either from Chinese pressure or for other reasons the Soviets have lost interest in a test ban agreement. The President replied that in his view it would be wrong to merge the test ban with general disarmament since for fifteen years discussion of the latter subject had gotten nowhere. Khrushchev said that when we start to test, he will start to test. The main question now was how to disengage from these negotiations. Macmillan and the President had talked about this matter, which was a hot issue in England. Gaitskell had also expressed his hope that we could wait until the autumn, until after his own contest for control in his own party, which he expected to win. This was a problem in Canada, too, and in general a major question of propaganda values. The question was how to break it off so that the Soviets would seem to be responsible.

[Here follows discussion of Germany and Berlin.]

0. Source: Kennedy Library, National Security Files, Countries Series, France, Vol. I. No classification marking. The memorandum is dated June 7, but no drafter is indicated.
1. Michael J. Mansfield of Montana, Senate Majority Leader; Hubert H. Humphrey of Minnesota, Senate Majority Whip; Richard B. Russell of Georgia, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee; J. William Fulbright of Arkansas, Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations; Everett M. Dirksen of Illinois, Senate Minority Leader; Leverett Saltonstall of Massachusetts, ranking minority member of the Senate Armed Services Committee; Bourke B. Hickenlooper of Iowa, a minority member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations; Alexander Wiley of Wisconsin, ranking minority member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations; Sam Rayburn of Texas, Speaker of the House; John McCormack of Massachusetts, House Majority Leader; Carl Albert of Oklahoma, House Majority Whip; Carl Vinson of Georgia, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee; Thomas E. Morgan of Pennsylvania, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee; Leslie C. Arends of Illinois, House Minority Whip; Robert B. Chiperfield of Illinois, ranking minority member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee; Charles B. Hoeven, ranking minority member of the House Agriculture Committee; and John W. Byrnes of Wisconsin, Chairman of the Republican Policy Committee.