Office of the Historian

190. Memorandum of Conversation0

SET/MC/29
London, June 24, 1962, 8 p.m.

SECRETARY’S EUROPEAN TRIP

June 18-28, 1962

PARTICIPANTS

  • United States
    • Secretary of State
    • Ambassador Bruce
    • Mr. Bohlen
    • Mr. Kohler
  • UK
    • Prime Minister Macmillan
    • Lord Home
    • Foreign Minister Edward Heath
    • Lord Privy Seal Sir Harold Caccia
    • Sir Evelyn Shuckburgh
    • Mr. Ian Samuel

SUBJECT

  • Nuclear Tests

Lord Home opened this phase of the discussion by asking what possibilities the Secretary saw for new moves in the nuclear test field. The Secretary replied that we were studying the possibilities for an atmospheric test ban. However what were referred to as national detection capabilities were in fact not national at all on our side. Rather they depended on arrangements with other countries and if we were to consider an atmospheric ban, agreements would have to be made with other peripheral countries which would enable us to be sure that the system would be continued. We could not, for example, be entirely confident of our present arrangements with a country like [less than 1 line of source text not declassified]. In any case, we would never be able to agree to an underground ban without verification.

The Prime Minister commented that even when he had met the President in Bermuda he had felt that the important aspect of the nuclear question was the possibility of development of an anti-missile missile. This development could not take place on the basis of underground tests. Consequently he had felt that we could risk a completely unpoliced ban, perhaps for a period of three to five years. He felt that this was the only way that could stop other countries from nuclear development. The only hope was to have a complete ban and thus be able to put diplomatic pressure on other countries to join in.

The Secretary commented that we were not seeking to stay in a nuclear race. Our objective was just to be sure that everybody gets out of [Page 472] the race. Following up on the Prime Minister’s remarks, Lord Home wondered whether it would not be possible to agree on an atmospheric ban for perhaps a period of one year, during which it would be agreed that there should be a joint study of the problem of underground tests. The Secretary replied that we could consider this possibility depending on the result of our present analysis of the problem. If the Soviets had really wanted a nuclear test agreement it was difficult to understand their motives in turning down our March proposals. They could then have had a test ban at a great bargain. Speaking on a personal basis, the Secretary commented that perhaps it would be possible after the conclusion of our current tests to approach the Soviets again privately—though not publicly—on this problem.

  1. Source: Department of State, Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330. Secret; Limit Distribution. Drafted by Kohler and approved in S on June 28. The meeting was held at Carleton Gardens. The Secretary was in London during a visit to several European capitals June 18-28.↩