345. Telegram From Secretary of State Rusk to the Department of State0
Secto 51. Following is (uncleared) summary account of Secretaryʼs conversation with Gromyko en route Moscow to Gagra August 8, in presence Ambs Thompson and Kohler and Soviet Amb Dobrynin.
Exchanges.
Pursuing general talk at lunch, Sec suggested extension of present cooperation in outer space, peaceful use atoms and agriculture as fields worth exploring. Cited as specific examples of possibilities: (1) joint effort on super-accelerator on order 500 billion volts which might cost $400 to 500 million. In reply Gromykoʼs questions, said effort might be initially Soviet-American to be joined in later by others interested and US had no fixed ideas as to location. Seaborg was interested in this possibility and Soviet scientist Wechsler1 has been working in field. (2) Space medicine. (3) Exchange of information and plant materials and establishment joint projects on flights affecting basic food production. This was field in which US and USSR are allies against nature and cooperation might be on lines similar to projects on human viruses worked out under WHO.
Gromyko expressed interest and undertook discuss with appropriate Soviet officials. Agreed subject could be further developed as appropriate through diplomatic channels and upcoming exchange negotiations, as well as visit to US of Soviet Atomic Energy Chairman Petrosyants.
Consular Convention.
When Sec paused, Gromyko affirmed continuing Soviet interest and acknowledged next move up to them. Said several points in US reaction to Soviet draft not satisfactory but was assured these discussable.
Civil Air Agreement.
Gromyko then raised matter Civil Air Agreement, stressing already agreed and initialed and ready for signing, which he suggested should be done by Secy and himself when he comes toUNGA session next month. Secy cited PanAm operational problems, requiring advance notice to enable reallocate aircraft and PanAm reluctance to start service during unprofitable winter months. Agreed to consider Gromyko suggestion [Page 736] on return Washington; perhaps signing would be in fall but service begin next spring. Pointed out, however, immediate US priority is ratification Test Ban Treaty, which we wanted nothing else to interfere with.
New Embassy Buildings.
Gromyko complained about difficulties encountered with Embassy project in Washington. After Secy cited Executive Branch efforts, Dobrynin expressed apprehension about recent Senate bill and asked whether this might be defeated or pigeon-holed in house. Secy said Dept would look into question of how bill might be handled in House. Added he had discussed subject with Senators on his delegation, who had not intended bill apply Soviet plans and would be willing amend to exclude Soviet project, if necessary because of delays due present court action. Reaffirmed US interest in helping because our own plans to build in Moscow.
Signing Test Ban Treaty.
Gromyko raised US refusal accept Mongolian signature on TB Treaty. Soviets did not understand this and might have to review our position. Secy responded we had thought countries would sign with depositaries they recognize, whether this be one, two or all three. Gromyko said this not their understanding of talks with Harriman and Hailsham and they had thought no such cases would arise. With single exception Taipeh, Soviets prepared accept any signature, for example, Spain, Latin American countries, Portugal, Ireland. USSR did not accept such limitations as US seemed to want to impose. Would be wrong for US turn down North Korea, North Viet Nam. Recognition was not involved. After some further discussion, during which Gromyko said he didnʼt know if Hanoi intended sign, Secy undertook to look into question further with legal experts, but pointed out might have some problems on this with Senate.
Trade.
Gromyko turned to trade. Secy said we had given this some thought and he would suggest we have talks on subject in some detail. Matter was complicated, some aspects being executive, others legislative. Leaving aside effect of political atmosphere, there were other problems. First of all, US and USSR were not naturally complementary economically, so seemed doubtful any really large possibilities for development. Another hampering factor was Soviet trading practices, notably as re patents and copyrights. After some discussion, with citation examples, Soviet publication American works without permission or payment, Gromyko said this was small problem. Another aspect, Secy said, is Soviet practice buying only proto-types. He had recently reviewed long list showing great variety items of which one or two samples exported. Would rather sell USSR thousand tractors than just one. Dobrynin cited recent Khrushchev [Page 737] offer buy several whole factories in US. Secy then referred to lend-lease saying impasse on last attempt at settlement resulted from Soviet insistence linking with trade. If we get into trade discussions perhaps this impasse could now be overcome. Amb Thompson brought up in this connection Soviet absence from NY Worldʼs Fair. In response Dobrynin comment too late to consider, Mr. Mosesʼ2 messages to Secy and Amb Stevenson were cited as to possibilities of timely construction if Soviet decision on participation promptly reversed. Gromyko was noncommittal, but left negative impression.
Embassy Communications.
Secy brought up Embassyʼs need for leased line to Western Europe, citing delay in communications during Harriman/Hailsham talks. Referring to Soviet Government leased lines from New York, he expressed hope for reciprocity in this question. In response Secyʼs inquiry whether this was policy question, Gromyko replied not policy but rather technical involving other government agencies. Some discussion ensued during which Kohler cited details on recent delays in telegram traffic and expressed surprise technical problems involved since such lines previously provided to press agencies and facilities understood to be available. Gromyko indicated he would look into status of matter but gave no commitment. Secy then asked whether SovGov interested in establishing direct radio link from new Embassy. No direct reply was given but Dobrynin inquired whether arrangements actually made with any other governments under new US legislation. Secy replied a number were under discussion; he would provide Dobrynin with full information on return Washington.
Germany/Berlin.
Gromyko then raised German problems in familiar terms. Secy said he could not understand what objection Soviets have to our troops in Berlin. Gromyko replied objection certainly not military. However, this was remnant of World War II which should be eliminated. Social system of West Berlin, in which we interested, would be guaranteed. Secy said we regarded US presence in West Berlin as a stabilizing factor. This avoided a direct German confrontation, which would be precarious. Gromyko replied US presence not stabilizing but irritating factor. Conversation terminated at this point as plane came in for landing.
Comment: Summary and full report of talk with Khrushchev will follow. Secretary will comment direct to President at earliest possible moment.