Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume V, Soviet Union

108. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, July 27, 1961.

SUBJECT

• U.S.-U.S.S.R. Exchanges (Meeting with Mr. Coombs)

PARTICIPANTS

• Mr. S.K. Romanovsky, Deputy Chairman of the Soviet State Committee for Cultural Relations with Foreign Countries
• Mr. V.M. Kamenev, Deputy Chief of the American Section of the Committee
• Mr. Yuri I. Volsky, Cultural Counselor, Soviet Embassy
• Mr. Dmitri D. Muraviev, First Secretary, Soviet Embassy
• Mr. Sokolov, Interpreter, Soviet Embassy
• CU—Mr. Philip H. Coombs
• CU—Mr. Max Isenbergh
• EUR/SES—Frank G. Siscoe
• EUR/SES—Jack R. Perry
• LS—Miss Natalie Kushnir

Mr. Coombs welcomed Messrs. Romanovsky and Kamenev to this country and to the discussions on American-Soviet exchanges, and expressed the hope that the promising cultural ties between our countries would continue to develop.

Mr. Romanovsky thanked Mr. Coombs for the opportunity to visit with him and to discuss the exchange program. Mr. Romanovsky then made the following statement:

The Soviet Union believed in the widest possible contacts through cultural, educational and scientific-technical exchanges. The present exchanges agreement and the previous one have proved that both countries gain from this contact. Enough time has passed to judge the value of the U.S.-U.S.S.R. Exchanges Agreement of November 21, 1959:¹ in the Soviet view, it has been fulfilled satisfactorily. In some sections of the Agreement, however, there has been unsatisfactory implementation owing to the attitude of the American side: for example, in exchanges of scientists, films, and of representatives of social organizations. The Soviet side wishes to remove these obstacles, and wished to discuss concrete ways of so doing.

As you know, Mr. Romanovsky continued, the Soviet Union stands for further development of exchanges, and proposes negotiations for a new exchanges agreement to cover 1962-1963; we know from your statements that you agree. Taking into consideration the established scientific, technical and cultural relations between our countries, the Soviet side believes we should put these relations on a firmer legal basis. The Soviet side would like to sign a Cultural Convention on the principles of scientific, technical and cultural exchanges. However, knowing American difficulties in signing such a convention, the Soviet side proposes an exchange of letters between the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the U.S.S.R. and the Secretary of State concerning the principles of exchanges.

Mr. Romanovsky then read the text of the Soviet draft letter, and presented copies. (A translation is appended.) Mr. Romanovsky concluded that the Soviet side was interested in hearing concrete proposals for the 1962-1963 agreement, and observed that the Soviet proposals aimed at a further strengthening of ties between the countries.

Mr. Coombs said that he wished to welcome Messrs. Romanovsky and Kamenev again, and that he was sure their presence meant a genuine interest in expanding exchanges. He pointed out that although he was new in his present position, having been in the field of education before, he was greatly interested in furthering international exchanges, and was especially interested in American-Soviet exchanges. Mr. Coombs said this Administration had already shown the great interest it had in educational and cultural exchanges. In fact, he added, the existence of an Assistant Secretary for Educational and Cultural Affairs demonstrated the importance we attached to this field. For his own part, he said, when he looked at the brief period American-Soviet exchanges had been carried on, he was impressed not with the difficulties but with the progress made in such a short time.

Mr. Coombs then made the following statement:

Our countries have two fundamental areas of agreement with regard to exchanges: first, we have both found our experience to date in exchanges desirable and beneficial; second, we both want to move on, to enlarge and improve exchanges. Both sides could cite impediments, but there is little to gain from charges and counter-charges in these discussions. The United States side was heartened by the action of the Soviet Government in improving access of American exchange students and professors to laboratories and archives in the U.S.S.R., and in enabling them to travel more freely. We were especially pleased at this, because the absence of these facilities make it difficult for our ablest students to go to the U.S.S.R. for a year instead of continuing their studies at home. We hope this action augurs well for future exchanges. We agree that if we can use your visit to discuss specific points for improvement, then further negotiations for a new concrete exchange arrangement can proceed more easily.

For our part, Mr. Coombs continued, we have numerous specific points in mind, of which a few might be cited as examples:

1. In the academic field, we hope for an increase in the exchange of able graduate students, and hope also for the exchange of professors for a sufficient period of time to make their visits useful. The key to this exchange is creating conditions in each country that will make it possible for the best students and professors to devote this time to study in the other country. For our students and professors, going to the U.S.S.R. is entirely voluntary, and they have many alternatives; they must see Soviet study as the best alternative or we cannot persuade them to go. We hope also that this exchange will be well balanced, with participation from students in all major fields—from scientific to humanistic—across the full academic spectrum.

2. Another step forward in the academic realm would be in the field of language study. Russian study has been limited in the United States, and we welcome the opportunity to send language students to the U.S.S.R., to have Soviet teachers here, and to contribute also to Soviet study of English.

3. Another mutually beneficial exchange would be in the field of educational administration: how to organize and conduct an educational system. We all have problems of expanding and improving our school systems, and can certainly learn from each other.

4. We are very much interested in bringing our peoples into closer contact through books, magazines, radio-television, and so forth. Only through this wider informational contact can we move more rapidly toward better understanding and elimination of misconceptions. We feel that at present American citizens who want to learn about the U.S.S.R. have more opportunity than your citizens who want to learn about us. For example, Soviet books are sold freely in American bookstores, but Soviet citizens do not have access to American publications. If we are serious about expanding mutual understanding, we will expand the exchange of books, magazines, radio and television programs. We must face honestly the fact that you do not want to receive American propaganda material, nor are we well disposed toward receiving Soviet propaganda. But there is a wide area beyond propaganda—for example, music, art, culture—and we should expand first in this area, where expansion is easiest.

5. Of particular interest to me is the exchange of educational radio and television materials. America has experimented a great deal in this field, and an exchange would enrich both educational systems.

6. Cultural presentations has been an especially gratifying field: both peoples have welcomed the otherʼs performing artists. These exchanges should not only be expanded but made more valuable by sending artists to a larger number of cities—small as well as large—so that wider contact could be established. It would also be well to emphasize younger performers—talented university students, for example—for if we put our young people into communication we shall do more than anything else could to improve understanding. We were gratified that the Michigan University Symphonic Band did so well in the U.S.S.R., and would welcome similar Soviet groups, small or large, at our cities and universities.

Mr. Coombs concluded by saying that Mr. Siscoe would be responsible for conducting the detailed discussions. He said that in his view conditions were favorable for making progress in exchanges. Our two countries have been in this activity a short time together, he added, but we are now ready to graduate from elementary to high school. If we put ourselves in the mood of trying to solve problems, rather than in the mood of a chess game, we can solve our problems.

Mr. Romanovsky commented that Mr. Siscoe was already a professor in this field, and Mr. Siscoe replied that all he knew about chess he learned from Russian masters.

Mr. Romanovsky said he wished to emphasize the interest of the Soviet Government in the widest possible contacts, and said the existence of the State Committee for Cultural Relations with Foreign Countries showed this interest. As for Mr. Coombsʼ comments, Mr. Romanovsky said he wished to say a few words. In regard to the exchange of students and professors, he said the Soviet side favored an increase, and regretted that instead of fifty the U.S. side had agreed to only thirty-eight students this year. As for language study, the Soviet side also favored this, and as a first step would recommend implementing the provision for exchanges in this field already in the Exchanges Agreement. The idea of exchanging specialists in school administration, he said, was very interesting. As for publications and radio-television, the Soviet side was in favor of increasing exchanges. Mr. Romanovsky said he wished to point out that Soviet citizens have more opportunity to know American literature and books than vice-versa, for the U.S.S.R. publishes many more American books in translation than the United States does Soviet books. The Soviet Union was for an increase in this field of exchanges. In particular, he added, it favored an increase in circulation of USSR and Amerika. He said he agreed with Mr. Coombsʼ statement about propaganda. Mr. Romanovsky said the Soviet side was also happy about developments in the performing arts field, and he would discuss this in more detail with Mr. Siscoe.

Mr. Romanovsky thanked Mr. Coombs for this exchange of opinions, which he said provided a very favorable basis for the detailed discussions.

Mr. Siscoe then outlined the schedule for discussions: Thursday afternoon, performing arts, education, cinema, tourism; Friday morning, scientific-technical and industrial exchanges; Friday afternoon, information exchanges, and a meeting in the late afternoon with USIA Acting Director Donald Wilson; Monday morning, general summary. Mr. Siscoe noted that this schedule has been compressed at Soviet request, since Messrs. Romanovsky and Kamenev planned to depart Tuesday morning.

Mr. Coombs said he would like to be at the meetings, but was preparing to leave the country soon. Mr. Romanovsky said if possible they would like another meeting with Mr. Coombs Monday after conclusion of discussions, and Mr. Coombs said he would try to be available for such a meeting.²

Attachment³

Text of Soviet Draft Letter

Soviet draft

Exchange of identical letters between A.A. Gromyko, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and D. Rusk, Secretary of State of the United States of America, concerning exchanges in the fields of science, technology, and culture between the two countries

Letter of A.A. Gromyko, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR, to D. Rusk, US Secretary of State

Dear Mr. Secretary: I have the honor to refer to the negotiations which recently took place between the representatives of our two governments on scientific, technical and cultural exchanges between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the United States of America. As I understand it, the objective of each of our governments is as follows:

1. To expand comprehensively the scientific, technical and cultural ties between our two countries in the interests of improving mutual understanding between the Soviet and the American peoples and developing international cooperation.

2. To implement scientific, technical and cultural ties between the two countries in accordance with the Constitution and the applicable laws and regulations which are in force in each country, with necessary observance of the principles of respecting sovereignty, non-interference in internal affairs, and equality.

3. To encourage the exchanges of groups of specialists in the field of industry, agriculture, construction, trade, etc.

4. To encourage visits by scientists, persons active in higher education and the educational system, and public health for the purpose of conducting joint studies, exchanging experience, holding lectures, and learning about the achievements of both countries; as well as to encourage exchanges of students and graduate students to attend higher educational institutions.

5. To encourage visits by scientists and experts to international scientific conferences, congresses, symposia, and exhibits held by both countries, and to extend equal opportunities to all participants of such conferences, congresses, symposia, and exhibits.

6. To encourage exchanges of performers and performing troupes, to promote trips of persons active in public and cultural affairs, repre-sentatives of trade-union, womenʼs, youth and other non-governmental organizations.

7. To promote the development of ties in the field of sports by organizing trips of athletes and sports organizations; as well as to encourage tourist trips of American citizens to the USSR and of Soviet citizens to the USA.

8. To promote the development of exchange of information between the two countries by organizing exhibits, exchanging radio and television programs and printed publications. I assume that being guided by the aforesaid principles, both countries will regularly develop and sign agreements between our countries on exchanges in the field of science, technology, health, education, and culture, for terms of two years each.

I hope, Mr. Secretary, that the aforesaid principles will come into force on receipt of your letter containing approval of these principles by your Government.

With assurances of my esteem,

Andrei Gromyko⁴
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR

0. Source: Department of State, Central Files, 511.613/7-2761. Official Use Only. Drafted by Perry.
1. For text of this agreement, see 10 UST, p. 1934.
2. The U.S. and Soviet sides met four times (July 27, 28 (twice), and 31) before the Soviet delegation returned to Moscow. (Memoranda of conversations; Department of State, Central Files, 511.613/7-2761, 7-2861, and 7-3161) In the course of these meetings Romanovsky transmitted a Soviet draft agreement and expressed his regrets that the United States did not have a similar draft ready, while Siscoe stated that the draft letter from Gromyko to Rusk seemed an inappropriate method of dealing with exchanges. The two sides also discussed exchanges in the performing arts, education, science and technology, and media and printed exchanges.
3. Official Use Only. The source text is a Department of State translation.
4. Printed from a copy that bears this typed signature.