[Enclosure]
Memorandum of Conversation
| Participants: |
Ruth F. Bean, Research Assistant of
Embassy |
|
Henry Lieberman, Newspaper
Correspondent, New York Times,
and |
|
Dr. Hu Shih, President of National
Peiping University |
Dr. Hu stated that he had been asked by the Generalissimo to accept
the presidency of China several days prior to the Generalissimo’s
address to the Kuomintang in which he stated that he did not wish to
run for the presidency. Dr. Hu stated that he felt that the Gimo was
very sincere in wishing to renounce the post, but that the Gimo had
become so intrigued with the idea of handing the government over to
a non-partisan that he had lost sight of the necessity to control
the party members. Dr. Hu believed that only two or three of
Chiang’s intimates knew of his decision prior to this speech, and
this may have been the Generalissimo’s greatest mistake. In
accepting the Generalissimo’s challenge to accept the position, Dr.
Hu said that he had foreseen that the Generalissimo might have
difficulties with the Party and had made it quite clear that the
Generalissimo was under no obligation to him (Hu). On Monday, after
a seven-hour session with the leaders of the Kmt, the Gimo told Hu
Shih that he had lost the battle and must therefore accept the
presidency. At this seven-hour meeting, all members, except six of
the younger element who wished to accept the Gimo’s suggestion,
rejected the Gimo’s decision not to run. For himself, Hu Shih stated
that he felt that he had received a “reprieve” when the Gimo
released him from his promise to run. He said that he would not,
under any circumstances, accept any other post in the government,
and in particular would not accept the premiership. He had
considered the presidency for two reasons: first, because he was
impressed by the Gimo’s desire to set a political precedent by
relinquishing the party’s control over the presidency, and two,
because the status of the presidency of China, as it is now set up,
stands somewhere between the American and French conceptions of
President, and that the presidency could be whatever the President
would wish to make of it. He practically admitted that had he
received the post, he would have been a figurehead, and the
Generalissimo would have been the Premier.
Dr. Hu refused to commit himself on the subject of the future
Premier, now that the Generalissimo has decided to run. He said that
he was “not certain” that Chang Ch’un would cease to be Premier.
[Page 197]
He said that the Premier
should be an extremely strong and active person.
In regard to the vice presidency, Dr. Hu seemed quite bitter about
what he considers to have been Li Tsung-jen’s misuse of a letter
which he (Hu) wrote when Li announced his candidacy. He said that
although-he and Li are old friends, the letter had been intended
only as encouragement to persons entering the election battle. He
admitted that Li is a very strong contender for the post but said
that he is personally opposed to having a military personage as
Vice-President since the Generalissimo is to be President. He said,
“After all, of the five candidates, Sun Fo is the only one with a
“modern mind”. He remarked that he considered the vice presidential
campaigns both interesting and a little messy. He remarked that both
Li Tsung-jen and Sun Fo are printing small newspapers for
distribution at the Assembly and that Li’s paper has been resorting
to smear tactics against Sun Fo, making wild assertions and charges
of graft, etc. Sun’s two papers are less vitriolic and are using the
defensive technique of trying to “laugh off” Li’s charges. Dr. Hu
states that although the Generalissimo obviously prefers Sun, Sun
now controls only about 1,000 votes, Hu denies that the Gimo will be
the deciding factor in the vice presidential elections. He described
the entire situation at the assembly as being “mob rule”, and
illustrated this by noting the number of amendments which are being
placed before the assembly in spite of the Generalissimo’s
instruction to the Kmt that no amendments should be made for at
least two years. Dr. Hu described the Kmt as completely out of
control.
The guiding forces in making the proposed resolution for granting the
President “emergency powers” were Wang Ch’ung-hui5 and Wang Shih-chieh. Dr. Hu felt that
this resolution is necessary, because under the existing
constitution, the President has powers only in the case of famine,
plague, etc. but not in the case of civil disturbance or war. The
Legislative Yuan will have the power to rescind these emergency
powers when they are no longer needed.
(All the above information was given as an “off the record” interview
to Mr. Lieberman. Dr. Hu stated that the information which follows
may be “quoted” if modified slightly.)
In regard to the recent student demonstrations at National Peiping
University, Dr. Hu stated that the Kmt Secret Police may be
considered responsible. He said that there are two types of
political parties: 1) The western or democratic type which is a
minority party dependent upon the independent voter for its ability
to attain a majority and therefore not subject to party discipline
and police methods, and
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2)
The Communist-Fascist type which must maintain secret police in
order to control its limited membership. In his opinion, the Kmt
Started as the former type, but during the 1923–28 period was
transformed into the second type. However, Sun Yat-sen, who was
basically Anglo-Saxon in his political thinking, was not satisfied
with the second type, and he therefore provided that it should exist
only through the “Period of Tutelage”. At the close of the Period of
Tutelage, the Party should revert to the western type of party. In
Dr. Hu’s opinion, the Kmt is now in the position of entering the
Constitutional phase of government but is full of “hanger’s on”—such
as the Secret Police and the Party Cliques which do not wish to give
up their power. For this reason, the Secret Police are in the
position of having to have something to do, and the National Peiping
University demonstrations are an example of the work they choose. He
said that the students have a justifiable grievance. Many of them
are in desperate financial straits as a result of the recent
fluctuations in the exchange rate. If he had been in Peiping, the
students would have kept in order, but during his absence, the
Secret Police issued orders against student demonstrations “and what
could one expect the students to do?” He denied that Communist
agitation had anything to do with the Peiping demonstration and
stated that he does not believe that the Communists have been
responsible for many other such student demonstrations. He regarded
the whole affair as typical of the Kmt bungling of the student
problem.
