Foreign Relations of the United States: Diplomatic Papers, 1945, General: The United Nations, Volume I

500.CC/4–2345

Minutes of the First Four-Power Preliminary Meeting on Questions of Organization and Admission, Held at Washington, Monday, April 23, 1945, 9:35 p.m.⁷⁵

Washington, April 23, 1945, 9:35 p.m.

[Informal Notes]

[Here follows list of participants, including members of the Delegations of the United States (3); United Kingdom (2); China (1); and the Soviet Union (2).]

Mr. Stettinius stated that there were some questions regarding San Francisco which he felt should be discussed with Dr. Soong who had postponed his flight to San Francisco in order to be here.

Mr. Molotov stated that he had one question, which involved the Crimean decisions, which he desired to discuss before Dr. Soong joined the group. He then referred to the question of the admission of the Ukrainian and White Russian Republics as initial members of the world organization.

Mr. Stettinius replied that the United States’ position had recently been made clear to Ambassador Gromyko. He then asserted that the United States would vote in favor of the inclusion of these two Republics in the world organization but that this is a matter which the Conference itself would have to decide.

Mr. Molotov stated that since the Crimean Conference there had taken place a conference of Inter-American countries as well as a conference of the British Dominions. He then remarked that since the British and American Governments at these two conferences had undoubtedly discussed the Crimean decision regarding these two Republics and that since they had undoubtedly indicated their desire to vote in favor of the inclusion of the Republics in the world organization, he was sure that the Crimean decision on this question would be carried out not just in form but in substance. He added that he felt sure of this since if this was not the case, he was certain that the Soviet Government would have received information from the British and American Governments as to any doubts regarding this matter.

Mr. Stettinius replied that the United States Government would carry out the commitment made by President Roosevelt at the Crimea to support this proposal and vote for it at the Conference.

Mr. Molotov asked whether the United States and British Governments were aware of the opinions held by Latin American countries and the Dominions in regard to this matter. He added that he understood that certain of the Dominions supported this question but was certain that Mr. Eden had full information on this subject.

Mr. Eden replied that Great Britain would carry out its pledged word to vote in favor of the inclusion of the Republics but added that he could not answer for the Dominions or the Conference itself.

Mr. Molotov remarked that he was bound to say that from a moral point of view he felt that the countries who had made this decision at the Crimea should exert every effort to see that other countries voted favorably for this proposal.

Mr. Eden asked Mr. Stettinius if he could control Latin American votes.

Mr. Stettinius replied in the negative.

Mr. Eden added that he could not control the Dominion votes.

Mr. Molotov stated that he could control no votes either.

Mr. Eden replied that it was therefore clear that all three countries were in the same position.

Mr. Stettinius stated that he had been instructed by the President to carry out the pledge made by President Roosevelt in regard to this question.

Mr. Eden added that the British Government would do likewise and it [had?] so informed the Dominion governments.

Mr. Molotov stated that if we cannot clarify this question further he wished to ask another; namely, do the United States and Great Britain agree that the Ukrainian and White Russian Republics should take part in the Conference if the Conference agrees?

Mr. Stettinius reminded Mr. Molotov that at the Crimea the only pledge taken was that we would vote in favor of making these two Republics initial members of the Assembly and that at Yalta the question of these Republics taking part in the Conference was not raised.

Mr. Molotov replied that since it was agreed that the Republics should be initial members of the Assembly, that meant that as initial members they would also take part in the Conference.

Mr. Stettinius replied that this was not our understanding since this is a Conference of United Nations to set up a world organization, and that we have only undertaken to vote in favor of making these two Republics initial members of the Assembly when the organization is set up.

Mr. Molotov stated that he agreed but expected that the United States and Great Britain will see that these Republics are made initial members of the organization.

Mr. Stettinius replied in the negative, stating that this was a matter for the Conference to decide.

Mr. Molotov stated that the Soviet Government would form its own judgment as to how well we can carry out joint agreements by the success that is achieved in electing these two Republics as initial members of the world organization.

Mr. Eden replied that the favorable votes of Great Britain and the United States were assured but that he could not speak for the other forty-four countries.

Mr. Molotov stated that this was all he had to say in regard to this question.

(Dr. Soong joined the group for further discussions.)

Mr. Stettinius declared the first meeting of the four Foreign Ministers to be open and suggested that they discuss procedural matters regarding the San Francisco Conference. He then stated that Mr. Alger Hiss, the temporary Secretary General of the Conference, would point out the procedural questions which remained unsettled.

Mr. Hiss pointed out that there were still a few problems which the British, Chinese and Soviet Ambassadors and the Secretary of State had not yet been able to settle. He then stated that the first question involved the organization of the commissions and committees of the Conference.

Mr. Molotov replied that he felt the first question to be discussed was that of the chairmanship of the Conference. He then asked whether it had been decided to apply the principle of equality between the four sponsoring powers. He then remarked that it was his hope that since the question of equality had been held to in regard to the invitations to the Conference, he felt that the same principle should apply to the proceedings of the Conference. He then stated that the Soviet Government claimed no special privileges and he was sure that none of the other sponsoring powers desired any special privileges. He then suggested that the chiefs of the delegations of the four sponsoring powers be elected chairman to act in rotation, and added that he felt it would also be advisable to elect four vice-chairmen from other countries and thus set the tone of the Conference on a basis of equality.

Mr. Stettinius replied that as far as the United States Government is concerned we did not desire any special privileges but that the question of the chairmanship had been given most careful consideration and it was felt that it would be necessary to fix responsibility and thus avoid confusion by electing one officer to preside over the Conference. He remarked that it would undoubtedly cause difficulties if the principle of rotating chairmanship should be adopted; confusion might arise when one chairman succeeded another. He remarked that this entire question had been reviewed in detail by both President Roosevelt and President Truman, and that they both agreed that it was desirable to have one presiding officer who would have full authority.

Mr. Molotov stated that he had explained the position of the Soviet Government.

Mr. Eden remarked that it was really a matter of procedure and a question of efficiency. He reminded Mr. Molotov that at the Moscow Conference, which had been a very great success, Mr. Molotov as host had been elected chairman of the Conference,⁷⁶ and therefore he felt that the same principle should apply in this case and that the Foreign Minister of the country in which the Conference was held should be elected chairman.

Mr. Molotov replied that at the Moscow Conference he had suggested that there be three chairmen, and although this proposal had not been accepted he felt that in order to preserve the question of equality four chairmen should be elected to preside over the San Francisco Conference.

Dr. Soong stated that he believed it was a question of efficiency and for this reason he felt that one chairman should be elected. He added that as regards the question of equality anyone may be elected chairman, but he felt that whoever is elected should remain chairman throughout the entire Conference.

Mr. Stettinius stated that Mr. Hiss had studied this question carefully and perhaps he could clarify certain points regarding this matter.

Mr. Hiss replied that there was little he could add to what had already been stated but that he could review what Mr. Gromyko and the others had said in regard to this, when it was discussed a short time ago.

Mr. Molotov stated that he was familiar with these discussions.

Mr. Stettinius asked whether it was believed advisable to throw this question into the whole Conference.

Mr. Molotov asked why it should not be decided by the Conference as a whole.

Mr. Stettinius replied that he had no objection to this but it would involve discussion with at least the forty-six delegates on the Steering Committee.

Mr. Molotov replied that he felt that this was a very important question and that therefore he felt that the other governments should have an opportunity to decide the matter. He then thanked Mr. Stettinius for all the work he had done in arranging for the Conference and assured him that whoever was elected chairman would receive the full support of the Soviet delegation.

Mr. Stettinius thanked Mr. Molotov for his comments on the arrangements which had already been made and stated again that his Government had given careful consideration to this entire question and felt that in point of view of efficiency only one chairman should be elected.

Mr. Molotov replied that he had no doubts as to the efficiency of four chairmen and felt that in order to preserve the question of equality four chairmen should be elected.

Mr. Stettinius asserted that as far as the United States Government was concerned, it made no difference who was elected chairman but it felt that one person should preside during the entire Conference.

Mr. Molotov asked permission of the other Foreign Ministers to maintain the position of the Soviet Government he had already expressed.

Mr. Stettinius agreed.

Mr. Molotov stated that he would like to see the Conference conducted by the four sponsoring governments on a friendly basis and on a basis of equality.

Mr. Stettinius asked whether Mr. Molotov desired that the chairman change every day or every week, or what he had in mind in regard to this question.

Mr. Molotov replied that this was a very simple question which could be worked out easily.

Mr. Eden stated that the Conference would be called upon to vote on this question.

Mr. Stettinius asked Dr. Soong whether there was anything else to do on this matter except to put it up for decision to the Steering Committee.

(It was agreed that this procedure should be followed.)

Mr. Hess then brought up the question of the structure of the Conference itself as regards the commissions and the committees.

Mr. Molotov asked why it would not be possible to reach agreement in regard to the Steering Committee and the Executive Committee, and asked who would be on the Steering Committee and who would be on the Executive Committee.

Mr. Stettinius stated that the Steering Committee would be devoted to the forty-six chairmen of the delegations, and added that in regard to the Executive Committee Mr. Hiss had suggested that it be composed of eleven members.

Mr. Molotov agreed to the proposal regarding the Steering Committee but asked whether representatives of the Ukrainian and White Russian Republics would be on the Steering Committee if they were admitted to the Conference.

Mr. Stettinius replied that if any country is admitted to the Conference, of course the chairman of its delegation would be on the Steering Committee.

Mr. Hiss stated that when the Ambassadors and the Secretary had discussed the question of the Executive Committee⁷⁷ they had generally agreed that there should be eleven members: the five permanent members of the Council, that is, the four sponsoring powers and France, and that in addition the United States representatives had suggested that Brazil, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Iran, the Netherlands and Mexico be represented on the Executive Committee. He added that there had been another suggestion made by the British and one by the Soviet Government, and therefore he felt that it might be advisable at this moment for each of the Foreign Ministers to express his ideas on this subject.

Mr. Molotov then suggested that Yugoslavia be substituted for Holland on the Committee since the government of Holland was now in the process of being reorganized while the Yugoslav government has already been reorganized and the Yugoslav people, who have contributed so much to the war, deserve a place on this Committee.

Mr. Stettinius stated that this matter had been discussed at the last meeting with the three Ambassadors.⁷⁸

Mr. Gromyko stated that he had put up the question of substituting Yugoslavia for Holland but that so far he had not received an answer from the other representatives.

Mr. Eden stated that it was his understanding that the American proposal as to the composition of the Executive Committee had been based upon the desirability of having various geographical units represented on the Committee, and that since Holland was a small Western European power and Czechoslovakia was a small Central European power he did not feel that you could leave Holland off. He added that if the Soviet Government felt that Yugoslavia was a better representative than Czechoslovakia, he had no objection to substituting Yugoslavia for Czechoslovakia.

Mr. Molotov stated that it would be unjust to exclude Czechoslovakia since the Bed Armies as well as the Armies of Great Britain and the United States were at this moment in the process of liberating that country.

Mr. Eden reminded Mr. Molotov that the British Army was in the process of liberating Holland, and then asked whether there was any fixed magic in the number 11.

Mr. Molotov remarked that he felt 11 was a good number.

Mr. Eden stated that, as Mr. Stettinius knew, Australia had asked whether it might not be possible for it to be represented on the Executive Committee since there were no countries representing the Southwest Pacific area. He added that he felt full consideration should be given to this since Australia had played a very prominent part in the war, and asked whether it was necessary to limit the membership of the Committee to eleven.

Mr. Stettinius replied that as far as he was concerned there was no magic in the number 11, and he felt that the Australian request should be given careful consideration.

Mr. Molotov asked whether it had been agreed that Yugoslavia should be on the Committee.

Mr. Stettinius replied in the negative and pointed out that to have both Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia on the Committee would throw off the geographical balance which had been used in selecting members of the Committee.

Mr. Molotov remarked that the Balkan countries were not represented on the Committee.

Mr. Eden asked whether it would be agreeable to include both Yugoslavia and Australia on the Committee as well as the four chairmen of the commissions of the Conference.

Mr. Stettinius asked whether there was any objection to that suggestion and pointed out that the chairmen of the commissions would in all probability be South Africa, Belgium, Norway and either Chile or Venezuela.

Mr. Molotov stated that if the Committee was enlarged to seventeen it would be composed of almost half the countries represented at the Conference.

Mr. Stettinius stated that seventeen was a good deal less than half of the number of countries represented at the Conference.

Mr. Eden pointed out that if the four chairmen of the commissions were placed on the Executive Committee they were not to act for their countries but act as representatives of the commissions.

Mr. Stettinius again asked whether it was agreeable to have an Executive Committee of seventeen as suggested.

Mr. Eden agreed.

Mr. Molotov then suggested that we should limit the number to twelve.

Mr. Eden suggested fourteen since thirteen would be an unlucky number.

Mr. Molotov asked who would be the additional members.

Mr. Stettinius suggested Yugoslavia, Australia and Chile.

Mr. Molotov agreed.

Mr. Hiss then brought up the question of the four commissions and four committees.

Mr. Molotov stated that he agreed to the proposals on this point but added that he hoped that the organizers of the Conference had borne in mind that places should be held on the committees for the Ukrainian and White Russian Republics. He was certain that all three governments including China desired to have the Ukrainian and White Russian Republics admitted to the Conference, and that once admitted they would have appropriate seats on the commissions and committees.

Mr. Eden stated that of course such would be the case and pointed out that with the enlargement of the Executive Committee there would be vacant seats on some of the commissions and committees.

Mr. Molotov again stated that he wished to press this question and hoped that China would agree with the British, American and Soviet Governments that these two Republics should be elected to the Conference.

Mr. Stettinius reminded Mr. Molotov that this depended on whether the Conference elected to admit these two Republics.

Mr. Eden remarked that we all are agreed that anyone who is elected to attend the Conference would have to work.

Mr. Molotov remarked that he would not forget this.

Mr. Stettinius assured Mr. Molotov that if the Conference elects to have the White Russian and Ukrainian Republics placed at the Conference, he will see to it that they get places on appropriate committees.

Mr. Hiss then brought up the question of official languages.

Mr. Stettinius moved that Chinese, French, English, Russian and Spanish be accepted as the official languages.

Mr. Hiss remarked that it was the feeling of the American delegation that it would be most practicable to have English as the working language but of course the others would also be the official languages, and stated that all statements would be translated into English and not into the other languages unless a special request was received to make such translation. He added that as regards documents, arrangements have been made so that any document may be translated into any language but the Secretariat hoped that this request would be used sparingly because of the time element involved in making such translations.

Mr. Molotov stated that in order to aid the Russian delegation in its work he desired that all documents be translated into Russian since Russian was one of the official languages.

Mr. Hiss pointed out that it had so far proved impossible to find a printing establishment in San Francisco that could handle the Cyrillic alphabet but that arrangements had been made so that documents in Russian could be mimeographed.

Mr. Molotov stated that he did not care whether it was printed or mimeographed so long as it was translated into Russian, and added that he was sure that American facilities would ensure that a good job was done.

Mr. Hiss stated that he would discuss this question further in San Francisco.

Mr. Stettinius added that we will do everything in our power to ensure that the documents were printed in Russian.

Mr. Molotov again expressed the desire to have all documents printed in Russian since it is one of the official languages.

Mr. Stettinius stated that investigations are being made in San Francisco to find out if it might not be possible to print the documents instead of having to mimeograph them.

Mr. Hiss stated that the next question concerned the matter of inviting unofficial international organizations to attend the Conference as observers or advisers. He added that a question had arisen as to whether nationals of non-United Nations could be admitted as observers or advisers to the Conference. He pointed out that this question had not been raised until March 31⁷⁹ when it was raised by the Soviet Government and that in the meantime invitations had been sent informally to various of these organizations and that some of the unofficial observers were not citizens of one of the United Nations.

Mr. Molotov remarked that he felt that it should have been clearly understood that only citizens of one of the United Nations could be invited to the Conference.

Mr. Eden pointed out that these individuals would attend not as nationals of their own countries but as representatives of the unofficial organizations, and therefore he did not think the question very important.

Mr. Molotov agreed that the question was not too important, but he felt that it was logical that only citizens of a United Nations should be invited. He pointed out that while the Soviet Union is not a member of the League of Nations or the International Labor Organization it had not objected to these organizations being represented, but he thought that the individuals representing such organizations should be citizens of a United Nation.

Mr. Eden stated that he did not think that Mr. Molotov could accuse him of pushing to have an Irishman represent one of these organizations.

Mr. Molotov said that he did not, of course, think that, but he was just expressing the opinion of his Government.

Mr. Stettinius pointed out that it would not be necessary for the official delegates to see or talk with any of these individuals, who in reality would only have “tickets to the balcony”.

Dr. Soong agreed that it was a minor question.

Mr. Eden said that he was willing to have neutrals invited and asked whether Mr. Molotov agreed.

Mr. Molotov stated that he wished to maintain the position of the Soviet Government.

Mr. Hiss stated that Sydney Hillman had asked the Department whether it would be possible to have a representative of the International Labor Organization accredited as an adviser to the Conference. He added that all the sponsoring powers except the Soviet Union were against this proposal since this would mean that the International Labor Organization would have a different position than the other unofficial international organizations.

Mr. Molotov stated that the presence of any of these people in San Francisco would not interfere with the Conference.

Mr. Eden observed that representatives of this organization could not be invited as advisers since the organization was not a government and therefore it could not be an adviser to a government.

Mr. Molotov then suggested that they should be invited as observers.

Mr. Stettinius pointed out that Mr. Hillman did not want this, and added that many other organizations had been invited as observers but that the International Labor Organization wished to be accredited as official adviser.

Mr. Molotov stated that he hoped an agreement would be reached to permit this organization to participate.

Mr. Stettinius pointed out that the organization was not a governmental body.

Mr. Molotov then suggested that it might be advisable to make an exception for this organization and did not think it would be right to refuse this request.

Mr. Eden pointed out that if we accepted this request we would have to accept the many similar requests from other organizations.

Mr. Dunn pointed out that we had had requests from about eighty-five similar organizations.

Mr. Eden stated that the British Government had requests from approximately forty such organizations.

Mr. Hiss replying to Mr. Molotov’s suggestion that this be left up to the Steering Committee pointed out that invitations to the Conference were issued by the sponsoring powers and not by the Steering Committee.

Mr. Molotov remarked that he had with him the Chairman of the Soviet Trade Union organization.⁸⁰

Mr. Stettinius stated that we had discussed the question of Mr. Hillman at some length and that after careful consideration it had been turned down.

Mr. Molotov asked that reconsideration be given to this matter.

Mr. Eden remarked that in regard to the Chairman of the Soviet Trade organization, he was accredited as an official delegate of the Soviet Government and that of course any government could accredit individuals as official delegates no matter what his private capacity was.

Mr. Hiss then brought up the question of the proposed changes to the Dumbarton Oaks agreement which the Chinese Government had suggested. He pointed out that these suggested changes had been agreed to by the United States Government and that they had been sent to the Soviet Government on March 16⁸¹ but that no reply had yet been received.

Mr. Stettinius suggested that these Chinese proposals be put on the table for discussion in connection with other proposed changes in the Dumbarton Oaks proposal.

Mr. Molotov stated that the Soviet Government would support the Chinese Government in this matter and hoped that the Chinese Government would also support the Soviet Union.

Mr. Hiss then brought up the voting procedure. He suggested that in closed sessions of the commissions and committees it would be advisable for each group to fix its own voting rules. In regard to the public sessions, however, he stated that we must have some rule for voting and suggested that in regard to procedural matters decisions should be taken by majority vote and that on matters of substance decisions should be taken on the basis of a two-thirds majority. Mr. Hiss added that he hoped that this question would be approached in a spirit of the Conference as a whole so that agreement will be reached in the closed sessions before the question at issue is discussed in public meetings, in order to avoid the possibility of the impression being gained that divergencies exist. He then asked whether the Foreign Ministers would agree that this question should be discussed with the other delegations.

(It was agreed that this question could be discussed with the other delegations.)

Mr. Molotov asked whether it was contemplated to have consultations with the four sponsoring delegations in regard to other questions that might come up.

Mr. Hiss stated that of course there would be such consultations.

75. This was the first of a series of so-called “Big Four” consultations which were held April 23 through May 4, 1945. The first six preliminary meetings (April 23, 25, 27, 28, 30, and May 1) concerned principally questions of organization and admission of States to the Conference; discussion at dinner on May 1 marked the transition to substantive consideration of the Charter proposals. The remaining five consultative meetings (May 2–4) were concerned exclusively with the Charter proposals.
76. For summary of the proceedings of the first session of the Moscow Tripartite Conference, October 19, 1943, 4 p.m., see Foreign Relations, 1943, vol. i, p. 577.
77. See minutes of the second meeting of the Informal Organizing Group, April 10, 3 p.m., p. 235.
78. See minutes of the third meeting of the Informal Organizing Group, April 13, noon, p. 283.
79. See minutes of the third meeting of Informal Organizing Group, April 13, noon, p. 283.
80. Vasily Vasilevich Kuznetsov, Chairman of the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions of the Soviet Union.
81. See telegram 619 to Moscow, p. 126.