793.003/458
Memorandum by the Chief of the Division of Far Eastern Affairs (Hornbeck)
Dr. Wu called by appointment, made at his request.
Dr. Wu inquired whether the Department had yet been informed of the delivery by Minister Johnson to the Chinese Minister for Foreign Affairs of the text of the proposals on extraterritoriality. Mr. Hornbeck replied that a telegram had come in this morning stating that the proposals would be delivered on the 9th or 10th of November; but that we had not yet received word that they actually had been delivered.
Dr. Wu said that he had looked over the draft handed to him some days previously by Mr. Hornbeck and that he found it even more unsatisfactory than he had expected that it would be. He said that it did not provide for the abolition of extraterritoriality but provided [Page 483] rather for its continuance. He said that he thought it would be preferable for the Chinese Government to enter into no new agreement rather than an agreement of this type.
Mr. Hornbeck said that the Department, pressed by China for proposals, and having stated in the announcements of September 4 and November 11, 1929,75 the lines along which it would be willing to negotiate, had attempted to produce draft proposals the provisions of which, if agreed upon, would provide a working scheme for the gradual abolition of American extraterritorial jurisdiction.
Dr. Wu said that he was struck with the extent to which the American proposals corresponded with the British proposals. Mr. Hornbeck said that British and American officers had several months ago exchanged views with regard to the needs of the situation and the steps which would fit those needs; that it was surprising to what extent the ideas had coincided; and that thereafter, in comparing notes, they had proceeded on the principle that wherever there was an agreement as to substance, it would make for progress to use the same phraseology. He said that it was felt that if China made treaties with a number of countries dealing with the same subject, the use of the same phraseology in all such treaties would simplify problems which might later arise. Dr. Wu said that he thoroughly agreed as to that principle. Mr. Hornbeck said that he felt that it must make the whole of the present problem clearer for China to realize how the American and the British Governments, exchanging views but acting independently, feel with regard to the desiderata in connection with the proposed new treaties.
Dr. Wu reverted to the statement that it would be better for China to wait than to commit herself to the indefinite perpetuation of even a part of the extraterritorial system. Mr. Hornbeck said that he thought that the Chinese Government should give serious consideration to the proposals which had been submitted; that the American Government, and he believed all the other governments, wished to be of assistance to China, consistently with their own interests, in effecting the transition from the present regime to a regime in which China’s jurisdiction within her own territories will be unimpaired; and that the proposals offer a plan whereby Chinese jurisdiction would be extended and the extent of American jurisdiction be cut down.
Dr. Wu asked that, when the Department had word that the text had been delivered in Nanking, he be informed. Mr. Hornbeck assured him that he would be informed.
There the conversation, as to this matter, ended.
- Press releases giving texts of notes of August 10 and November 1, 1929, replying to Chinese notes of April 27 and September 5.↩