Paris Peace Conf. 180.03501/74
HD–74
Notes of a Meeting of the Heads of Delegations of the Five Great Powers Held in M. Pichon’s Room, Quai d’Orsay, Paris, on Wednesday, October 22, 1919, at 10:30 a.m.
- Present
- America, United States of
- Hon. F. L. Polk
- Secretary
- Mr. L. Harrison
- British Empire
- Sir Eyre Crowe
- Secretary
- Mr. H. Norman
- France
- M. Pichon
- Secretaries
- M. Dutasta
- M. Berthelot
- M. de Percin
- Italy
- M. Tittoni
- Secretaries
- M. Paterno
- M. Barone Russo
- Japan
- M. Matsui
- Secretary
- M. Kawai
- America, United States of
Joint Secretariat | |
America, United States of | Capt. B. Winthrop |
British Empire | Capt. G. Lothian Small |
France | M. Massigli |
Italy | M. Zanchi |
Interpreter—M. Mantoux |
The following were also present for the items in which they were concerned:
- America, United States of
- Mr. E. L. Dresel
- Dr. I. Bowman
- Mr. A. W. Dulles
- British Empire
- General Sackville-West
- Mr. A. Leeper
- Commandant Lucas
- France
- Commandant Levavasseur
- Commandant Aron
- M. Cheysson
- Japan
- M. Shigemitsu
1. Sir Eyre Crowe said that he wished to bring to the attention of the Council a telegram which had just been received, according to which a German aeroplane had made a forced landing in the neighborhood of Kovno. This aeroplane car German civilian pilots and three passengers, [Page 732] one of whom was Russian and the other two Turkish; this aeroplane was travelling from Berlin to Moscow and was being held until further orders. Landing of a German Aeroplane at Kovno
2. Sir Eyre Crowe wished to bring to the notice of the Council the fact that the British Government, called upon by a number of Delegates, was making every effort to secure berths for Delegates who wanted to proceed to Washington in connection with the Labor Congress, but was not absolutely sure of securing same. He would make every effort for this purpose; perhaps the Council could give direct orders to the Allied Maritime Transport Executive. Journey of the Delegates to the Labor Congress at Washington
Mr. Polk said that he felt the same way, and had already cabled to Washington asking whether it would be possible to take care of these Delegates on transports which were sailing from Brest within the next few days; he doubted, however, whether this could be done, considering that every available berth had been taken. An answer was expected the following day.
M. Pichon said that it would be wise to settle the question at the meeting of the Council to be held on the following day, and meanwhile to instruct the Allied Maritime Transport Executive in the way suggested by Sir Eyre Crowe.
Mr. Polk feared that the Allied Maritime Transport Executive would reply that all available tonnage which it controlled had been allotted to commerce.
3. M. Tittoni wished to announce that Italy had appointed Count Bonin-Langare, Italian Ambassador in Paris, as its Delegate on the permanent Committee charged with the execution of the Treaty, and Professor Pagliano as second Delegate. The Committee on Questions Relating to the Interpretation and Execution of the Treaty of Peace
M. Pichon said that France would be represented on the Committee by himself, and by M. Berthelot as second Delegate.
4. (The Council had before it a note from the Finance Commission dated October 15th, 1919, relative to a telegram from the French High Commissioner at Constantinople dated September 23rd, 1919, and a draft telegram to be sent by the Government of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to the Allied High Conamissioners at Constantinople (See Appendix “A”).) German and Austro-Hungarian Banks in Turkey
M. Cheysson read and commented upon the note from the Finance Commission.
Sir Eyre Crowe stated that he had consulted the Legal Advisors of the British Delegation on the subject, and that the latter felt that two points had to be distinguished, liquidation and control. With regard to liquidation, the Legal Advisors approved of the proposals of the Finance Commission. With regard to control, they had remarked that two questions were to be considered, not only the Treaty with Germany [Page 733] but also the Armistice conditions with Turkey; the Armistice conditions prohibited the Turks from allowing Germans to resume their position in Turkey. He thought the question had better be referred back to the Drafting Committee which would be able to furnish a report in short time.
M. Tittoni thought that the question should certainly be submitted to the Legal Advisors. The question was important: were the Armistice conditions with Turkey, or rather, as he thought, the provisions in the Treaty of Peace with Germany to govern the situation of German and Austrian banks in Turkey.
(It was decided:
to refer to the Drafting Committee for examination and report the note of October 15th, 1919 from the Finance Commission, relative to the situation of German and Austrian banks in Turkey, as well as the draft telegram to the Allied High Commissioners at Constantinople prepared by this Commission (See Appendix “A”).)
5. (The Council had before it a note from the Greek Delegation to the Peace Conference dated October 15th, 1919 (See Appendix “B”).) Sequestration of Property Belonging to the Greek Orthodox Community of Budapest
M. Tittoni said that the Economic Commission was competent to examine this note. The Draft Treaty with Hungary contained, in Section 4, Part 10, clauses which were pertinent to the above case in the protest of the Greek Delegation.
(It was decided:
to refer to the Economic Commission for examination and report the protest of the Greek Delegation relative to the sequestration of property belonging to the Greek Orthodox Community of Budapest. (See Appendix “B”).)
6. (The Council had before it a telegram from the High Commissioner of the French Republic in the Near East, transmitting a telegram from the Grand Vizier to the Chargé d’Affaires of Turkey, at Vienna (See Appendix “C”).) Repatriation of Staff of Turkish Embassy at Vienna
After a short discussion it was decided:
To authorize the repatriation of the Turkish Embassy Staff at Vienna in accordance with the request made by the Grand Vizier to the French High Commissioner, also to authorize the transmission to the Turkish Chargé d’Affaires at Vienna of the telegram prepared by the Turkish Government (See Appendix “C”).
7. (The Council had before it a note from the Serb-Croat-Slovene Delegation, dated Paris, October 7th, 1919, requesting that authority be given by the Supreme Council to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government to exploit the coal mines situated in the basin of Pecs (Petchoui) for a period of five years beginning with the coming into force of the [Page 734] Treaty (See Appendix “D”).) Permission To Work the Pecs coal Mines
Commandant Aron said that M. Loucheur wished to have this question postponed.
M. Tittoni did not think that a postponement was necessary: the Reparation Commission had examined this question and was unanimous in proposing that the Serbian request be rejected.
Commandant Aron then said that the Reparation Commission had decided that the question was not one which came within its province.
Mr. Polk wished to ask whether this application had been referred to the Coal Commission.
Sir Eyre Crowe replied that he did not know. He considered the question a local one because the competent local Commission had already refused to accede to the Serbian request that the mine district of Pecs should be included within the frontiers of the Serb-Croat-Slovene State. On account of this refusal, the Serbs had formulated their new demand.
M. Tittoni said that if the mines of Pecs were taken away from Hungary, that country would have no coal at all. The Coal Commission was not competent, and in his opinion, it was only the Economic Commission which was qualified to deal with this question.
M. Pichon remarked that M. Loucheur wished to be heard by this Commission.
(It was decided:
to refer to the Economic Commission for examination and report the note from the Serb-Croat-Slovene Delegation dated October 7th, 1919 (See Appendix “D”), requesting for the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government the exclusive right of exploitation of the coal mines situated in the Petchoui (Pecs) Basin for a period of five years after the entrance into force of the Treaty of Peace.)
8. (The Council had before it a revised draft of a note addressed to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government dated October 20th, 1919, which had been prepared by the American delegation (See appendix “E”).) Note to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government
Mr. Polk said that he had asked for certain modifications of form in the draft1 which the Council had examined at last Monday’s meeting; the text which he had prepared had been distributed to the various Delegations.
M. Berthelot said that the Serbian delegation had refused to sign the Treaty of Peace with Austria on account of the Minorities Treaty: this had not been done without hesitation on its part. The only reason that the Serbs gave for not signing immediately was that they were without a cabinet at the time. Now, however, after a long crisis, a cabinet had been formed. Mr. Trumbić had left Belgrade [Page 735] and he and Mr. Patehitch had instructions to sign. Under these circumstances it was a question whether the proposed step was a necessary one. In a conversation which he had had with Mr. Vesnitch, the latter had insisted upon his demand that if the Minorities Treaty be modified to give satisfaction to the Greeks or Roumanians, the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government should also benefit by these modifications.
Mr. Polk said he had received a telegram from the United States Minister at Belgrade announcing the departure of Mr. Trumbić who had received instructions to sign the Treaty: under these conditions it was perhaps not necessary to send a note.
M. Pichon was of the same opinion.
M. Tittoni inquired whether the Serbs meant to sign the Treaty only after it had been modified.
M. Berthelot stated that no modifications had been made to the Treaty since the Council had last heard Mr. Vesnitch, at which meeting Mr. Tittoni was present.
Sir Eyre Crowe thought that the situation was not the same for the Treaty with Serbia as regards Minorities as for Treaties with Greece and Roumania. The Principal Allied Powers had already signed the Treaty with the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government.
M. Berthelot said that the question had already been brought up in connection with Poland: Poland had asked that if on any important point a more favorable situation was granted to the Roumanians, concerning the Jewish question for instance, the same advantages should be granted to Poland.
Sir Eyre Crowe remarked that it was important that no promise should be given.
M. Berthelot said there was no question of giving a promise, for should it be given, such a promise would not amount to very much. The modifications requested by the Roumanians, as a matter of fact, either concerned the very essence of the Treaty, and therefore could not be accepted, or questions such as the Jewish question did not concern the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government. Under these conditions the Serbs would have difficulty in availing themselves of the Treaty with Roumania in order to ask for a more favorable regime. Should it be necessary to introduce certain modifications in the Serbian Treaty, the fact that the Principal Allied and Associated Powers had already signed would not be an obstacle thereto.
M. Pichon said that for the moment it was only a question of finding out whether we could tell the Serbs that if the other Treaties concerning Minorities were modified, they should benefit by the same modifications. As far as he was concerned he thought it advisable [Page 736] to ask the Serbs to sign purely and simply. Mr. Trumbic had left Belgrade with instructions to sign the Treaty of Peace with Austria, therefore, it would be better to await his arrival.
Sir Etre Crowe was of the same opinion.
It was decided:
to adjourn until a further meeting of the Council the sending of a note inviting the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government to sign the Treaty with Austria and the Minorities Treaty. (See Appendix “E”.)
9. (The Council had before it a note from the German Delegation dated, Paris, October 17th, 1919, (See Appendix “F”).) Seizure of German Shipping in the Baltic
Sir Etre Crowe said that a certain latitude had always been given to the Commander-in-Chief of the Naval Forces in the Baltic, and the Council had always avoided giving a decision on the measures taken by him. We were bound to recognize the decisions by virtue of which the German shipping in the Baltic had been stopped. Perhaps these decisions had been executed too strictly; in fact, he was informed that their execution sometimes entailed unnecessary inconvenience not only for the Germans but also for Neutrals, and for this reason sailings of German ships which were carrying food-stuffs from Denmark to the plebiscite zone of Schleswig had been held up. It was therefore necessary to direct the Naval Commanders to act with great discretion and to carry out their measures in such a way as not to affect without good cause navigation in the Baltic; we should instruct the Admirals to interfere as little as possible with traffic between neutral ports, and even, in certain cases, to authorize traffic between German ports.
M. Tittoni remarked that it was the intention of the Council to prevent in an effective way commerce with ports of Bolshevik Russia: its object was not to interfere with traffic in the Baltic.
Sir Etre Crowe said that it was not only a question of the blockade of Russia; he also had in mind the situation brought about by the action of the Germans in Courland. The Naval experts should be requested to prepare the draft of an answer to the German note.
Mr. Polk asked that the draft of this answer be submitted to the Council.
It was decided:
- (1)
- that the Allied Naval Armistice Commission should be asked to execute the measures prescribed by it with regard to the situation in the Baltic Provinces in such a way as to take into account the legitimate interests of neutral commerce and certain urgent needs with respect to supplies for German ports;
- (2)
- that the Naval Experts should present to the Council as soon as possible a draft answer to the German note of October 17th, 1919. (See Appendix “F”.)
10. (The Council had before it a note from the Roumanian Delegation dated October 18th, 1919, requesting representation on the Commissions charged with the recovery of material, which were functioning in Germany in the interests of France and Belgium in execution of the Armistice Clauses (See Appendix “G”).) Representation of Roumanian on the Armistice Commissions charged with the recovery of material in Germany
M. Berthelot said that it was difficult to accept the Roumanian demand. As a matter of fact the right which the Roumanian Delegation was demanding had been recognized by the Armistice in favor of France and Belgium alone; on the other hand, the Roumanians had not hesitated to go ahead and recover alone material in Hungary. It was therefore difficult to grant them this favor. He therefore proposed that this note should be referred back to the Reparation Commission with a request that it should examine and advise in what measure it was possible to grant it.
M. Tittoni did not think that this was a question of application of the Treaty. The Armistice only stipulated a recovery of material taken away by German troops in favor of France and Belgium. Once the Treaty came into force, the situation would be different, and recovery of this kind would be made in favor of all the Allies. He thought, however, that the Reparation Commission was best qualified to examine the Roumanian request.
It was decided:
to refer to the Committee on the Organization of the Reparation Commission for examination and report the note of the Roumanian Delegation dated October 19th, 1919, (See Appendix “G”), requesting representation on the Commissions charged with the recovery of stolen material which are operating in Germany under the clauses of the Armistice.
11. M. Pichon said that Mr. Henry Simon2 asked whether the Council would adjourn the examination of this question. Offer of the National Lutheran Council of the United States With Regard to the Exexution of Article 438 of the Treaty of Peace With Germany
Mr. Polk said that he had only received instructions to submit the document3 in question to the Council but that he had not been asked to press with any special force its conclusions: the opinion of the Council was only asked for.
(The examination of this question was therefore adjourned.)
(The meeting then adjourned.)
Hotel Crillon, Paris, October 22, 1919.
[Page 738] [Page 740] [Page 745]- Appendix A to HD–73, p. 718.↩
- French Representative, Commission on Colonial Mandates.↩
- The document referred to is a letter containing the proposal of the National Lutheran Council of the United States to take over the German Lutheran Missions in different parts of the world. (Paris Peace Conf. 185.18/35, 38.)↩
- The document referred to does not accompany the minutes.↩