793.00/7–752: Telegram
No. 36
The Ambassador in India (Bowles) to the
Department of State
80. On Saturday July 5, Mrs. Pandit came to luncheon alone with Mrs. Bowles and me and discussed China with apparent frankness for more than two hours. She made fol points:
- 1.
- Those sections China which she visited seemed united and enthusiastic about present regime. Mrs. Pandit emphasized her tour [had] been limited largely northern China and that spirit may be somewhat less good south.
- 2.
- With exception Nanking and Tientsin Govt offs and individuals reported set lines in almost identical language in discussing fon affairs or other complex subjs. In Nanking and Tientsin she found considerably more frankness of observations and outspoken criticism purges public trials and mass executions.
- 3.
- Even those whom she knew cld speak English fluently insisted talking Chi thru interpreter. She specifically was requested speak in Hindi on public occasions. In other sitns she and other members of del spoke in English which was translated usually by Amer-educated Chi.
- 4.
- Madame Sun Yat-sen is closely confined Shanghai. She visits Peking once year briefly. Her home is quite Americanized in its furnishings and pictures, etc. She seemed bitter at world generally and had little to say.
- 5.
- Hate campaign against US unrelenting and probably quite effective in unifying country. She stated that all members del were shocked by thoroughness with which this campaign been developed.
- 6.
- Brit and other fon businessmen working under almost impossible difficulties but she surprised find little actual bitterness against Brit.
- 7.
- Chi health conditions remain serious even worse than in India. Existing hospitals, however, mostly Amer built, efficiently run (Mrs. Pandit saw only two villages presumably handpicked).
- 8.
- The effort being made educate people and particularly children is frightening in its thoroughness and doctrinaire qualities. From kindergarten up, every stage of education ruthlessly controlled. Roughly one-third younger people, now covered.
- 9.
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Mao Tse-tung clearly dominant factor. Her one conversation with him one-sided and quite unsatisfactory. He polite but no more than that.
Liu Shao-ch’i, in her opinion is second most powerful man in govt. He in charge all propaganda work, extremely competent, quite doctrinaire in his Commie philosophy but in poor health. She saw him briefly on but one occasion.
Chu Teh in charge armed forces, she found intelligent, tough, able, but doctrinaire Commie and quite inflexible.
Chou En-lai is in her opinion fourth in importance. In contrast to her drab reactions to top three she found Chou En-lai friendly, open, frank, willing listen and discuss many subjs on reasonable basis. She had three talks with him; two of them rather lengthy.
She told Chou En-lai when he opened up subj Korea that she hesitated discuss politics unless he clearly wished do so because she had spent considerable time US and because her friendship for Amer people generally well-known. She reported she told Chou En-lai that Amer people sincerely anxious end fighting Korea and there no desire for second [third] world war. She stated she told him Amer primarily afraid Russia and that Russia had given Amer much reason for fear. She said if Chi adopted policy wholly independent from Russia that Russia might modify her policy generally and world peace might be brought closer. This latter remark [Page 75] caused Chou En-lai to flush and to reply with considerable emphasis Russia not running China and never wld.
Chou En-lai asked Mrs. Pandit about Amer aid India; whether Amers sought tie India down with polit strings, etc. Mrs. Pandit answered this not case. Chou En-lai asked detailed questions about various Amer personalities their influence in govt, etc.
She seemed genuinely convinced he interested in peace and anxious see China build herself up independent from Russia. However, she stated she did not know how much influence he had with other three top leaders and she inclined think that they with comparatively little knowledge outside world wld dominate policy making.
Mrs. Pandit said many believe present Governor of Manchuria1 young, able doctrinaire will succeed Mao Tse-tung.
- 10.
- Everywhere she found extreme sensitiveness question Russian influence China. This was true not only high govt circles but among lower bureaucracy. She saw only few Russians, most them in hospital in Peking.
- 11.
- Mrs. Pandit seems honestly to believe that Chinese are not stooges Sov Union and not likely allow themselves be placed that position. However, feels they tough in their own right and over period years cld conceivably become strong and dangerous nation. She stated they obviously have many problems that their industry far less developed than that of India that they in no position fight major war. For this reason is convinced they will not move into Indochina. She believes they anxious for peace Korea but will not pay what seems to them too high price for that peace.
- 12.
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Mrs. Pandit then discussed Ind fon policy with frankness. She stated her brother’s2 views on Russia had hardened considerably in last year and particularly in last six months. She said he had been inclined naively to assume that all questions cld be settled by reason but actions Ind Commies and closer observations Sov Union cleared own thinking. She pointed out he and many other prominent Inds applied double-standard in judging Russian and Amer actions and attitude. She volunteered this must often be extremely trying to us but she rather smoothly said we should understand this backhanded tribute to high regard in which they held us.
She stated that India for present at least must do everything possible get on with China. She said it must be clear to me from what she had told me in confidence that this did not mean that she or other top Ind leaders had any illusions about basic nature Chinese Govt. However, India weak country and had very little choice but [Page 76] to play for time her relations China, build up her econ strength, solve her many problems, exert what modifying influences she cld and hope for best.