231. Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and Senator Mike Mansfield1
President: These people in State and Defense met during the evening on this Guantanamo thing, weʼre going to meet again after lunch. Theyʼre trying to find out exactly what has happened. I wanted to get any reactions you might have to it before I went back to meet with them again.
Mansfield: Well, evidently it appears that they violated no international law, but a state law. It is my understanding that water is being rationed on a 3-hour-a-day basis there and that Castro has allowed the water to flow from the river for an hour each day, so we ought to have plenty. But here is a statement that I made this morning, if you have a minute or so.
“Mr. President, no matter how the Cuban Government may act, the Cuban fishermen are entitled to and will receive the same justice, the same impartial protection of domestic and international law as any other alien persons in similar circumstances. The fact that they are Cubans or that Cuba retaliates for their arrest is irrelevant insofar as the judicial processes of this nation are concerned. However the Cuban Government may regard the matter, there will not be any mixing of justice and water on our part. Insofar as the water supply is concerned, if the pretext of the arrest of the Cuban fishermen had not sufficed, the Havana government would have had no difficulty in creating another. It is obvious that Castro wants us out of Guantanamo, and it is obvious that he is not going to make it easier for us to stay. It is equally obvious that we have no intention of being pressured out. At this time the need is for cool water at the Guantanamo base, hot words on the floors of the Congress will not supply it. We have the technical means to supply the water for as long as it takes, and in whatever quantities it takes. I have every confidence that the President will see to it that we are not parched out of Guantanamo.” And then Tommy Kuchel came in and supported it in effect.
President: Thatʼs good. Thatʼs a good statement.
Mansfield: This will save you $14,000 a month, I understand, which you wonʼt pay to Mr. Castroʼs government.
[Page 576]President: What, heʼs got a good many people working there too, and we probably ought to make, if heʼs not going to allow us to have water, we probably ought to try to make the whole base independent of him, and secure. Weʼre going to think about that today, and probably issue a pretty strong statement later in the day that, namely that weʼre going to—heʼs breached a contract, thatʼs his choice, thatʼs a bad way to do, but heʼs done it, and therefore weʼre going to supply our own water, and supply our own personnel and operate our own base.
Mansfield: You mean all the Cubans, all of them would be off?
President: Well, except those that live on the base. So we could do that. We havenʼt decided to do it, thatʼs a possibility, just declare the complete independence of it. So, we could do that now. I donʼt know what else we can do. You got any other thoughts?
Mansfield: Well, I would think that one thing which might be worth considering, this would call for very delicate handling, would be for the Florida courts just to release these people with an admonishment and send them home. We could afford to be big-hearted, but thatʼs a state matter, and that could get you into trouble because of the feeling down there.
President: And it may look like weʼre being awfully soft. I think it ought to follow its normal course, whatever they do to them, and I think most of the time they fine a captain. It looks like from the information we have this is deliberate and—
Mansfield: If I get any ideas on the base of what you said, or any other, Iʼll pass them on.2
- Source: Johnson Library, Recordings and Transcripts, Recording of telephone conversation between President Johnson and Mike Mansfield, Tape F64.11, Side B, PNO 3. No classification marking. The President placed the call. This transcript was prepared in the Office of the Historian specifically for this volume.↩
- In a February 7 memorandum to the President, Mansfield recommended that “we ought not be governed in this matter by any passions aroused by water shut off,” that the United States should “avoid the appearance of a great nation bullying the weak by an over-display of power,” and that “it should be stressed that if the dismissal of Cuban personnel at the base (apart from the water shut-off incident) is really necessary for security of the base, then the best way to do it would be in as restrained and as unthreatening way as possible.” In conclusion, Mansfield advised the avoidance of “inadvertently strengthening Castro with his own people on what may be the mistaken assumption that displays of our anger and power will hasten his downfall.” (Johnson Library, National Security File, Country File, Cuba, Guantanamo, Water Crisis/Cuban Fishing Boats, 2/64)↩